bye welder, hi welder

[KartFab]

I have always been a fan of miller welders. I learned to stick weld on my dads miller thunderbolt when I was a kid. He still has it and it still works great.

Yes, there are others like lincoln and hobart (cough miller), and im sure they could follow this same pattern. I dont think i could ever buy a chinese welder, no matter how well it worked. Heres why:

Resale value.

When i first started TIG welding, I bought a miller maxstar 140 from a guy for $400, it was pretty beat up but it worked great. I had to buy a few things for it, and after it was all said and done, I had $500 into it. I kept it for a while and decided to upgrade.

I listed it on ebay and sold it for $800 within a day.

Next, I bought a miller maxstar 150 STL (the one in the picture) used on ebay for $900 5 years ago. It came with all that stuff, plus a nice victor dual flow meter that i still have for backpurging when welding stainless.

I just sold my maxstar 150STL for $880 cash to a nice latino guy without the flow meter. Otherwise i would have sold it for about $900 on ebay.

Next I am getting the miller diversion 180; it should arrive sometime this week so I can finally start welding aluminum (you will soon see why lol, its a really dumb reason but it is a reason none the less!!).

Anyway, I just wanted to point out to those that say, buy a cheap chinese welder, you wont use it much and its so much cheaper than a lincoln, miller, whatever... You can buy a used miller in good shape, and sell it 5 years down the road for what you bought it for.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[2SlickNick]

Great to know Grant.
I have been considering another welder. I have a job smart from TSC. It's not bad, but I need consistency.
I have been giving thought of trading one of my minibikes for a name brand gas mig.

 

[supermanotorious]

welp! I wouldn't encourage anyone to drop several hunnert dollars on a Chineee welder but I do encourage a lot of beginners to buy the HF 90 amp flux and convert it to DCEN- for friends I'll do the conversion for silver bullets, for other folk I charge $80 parts and labor. The HF 90 amp is 110 which means most of them can plug it in without doing any electrical work, plus most of them wont cry over the loss of $100 for long if they never use it again AND it should handle 99% of their lifelong welding needs

I agree you'd be hard pressed to get your scratch back out of the HF 90 amp but why would you??? Yes I have Lincoln's power couple (210 MP and SW200) but I will always keep my Chineee welder for loaning to friends, sketch jobs, etc. When I say sketch, I refer to the fact I offer services as a mobile welder. Sometimes I get a bad vibe from someone wanting me to drive out with my equipment and when I get that vibe I grab mister 90 amp. If they rob me of it, I wont lose any sleep.

I've posted it before but to reiterate, I started with the HF 70 amp stick welder which I still have, I leave it at my dad's place in New River in case he needs it. I then bought a Lincolnn tombstone on CL for $100 and keep that in my shop[ with the HF 90 and the red power couple. I don't even intend to sell my welders and if I had to, you could guess what order I'll let them go.

At any rate, yes my Lincolns outperform the Chineee welders at least 5:1 and if you are a weldor, I highly encourage you to get a name brand gas rig, but for those starting out, save some scratch and make sure you're going to weld for the long haul

 

[OzFab]

...buy a cheap chinese welder, you wont use it much and its so much cheaper than a lincoln, miller, whatever...

Chinese welders are "ok" if you only use it on the odd occasion but, if you weld every day, go for a name brand...

I bought my chinese welder about 8 years ago &, yes, it's had an issue or two; for instance, the plastic gears in the wire feed gearbox stripped after only about a year (my buddy helped it along a bit) but, the $70 replacement is still working fine, & the cooling fan hasn't worked in forever but, in general, it does the job I want it to do...

I'm not trying to contradict or undermine you, Grant, I agree with you, more so these days, you pay for quality; I'm simply saying buy what you think is reasonable for what you plan to do with it; is there really much point in spending $1000 on a tool you may use once or twice every other week?

 

[kevbo22]

Weve got a go blue or go home guy here! LOL, just kidding miller is great.

I have several friends who are red or nothing kinda guys, so I get it.

Ive welded with miller, hobart, lincoln, campbell hausfled and eastwood.

I sold my hobart for the eastwood 250. I personally wouldnt go back, that said I wouldnt want a HF ever.

All my friends are bias to the lincolns. But for the money, and the way my eastwood performs, I wouldnt have a problem recommending one or getting another. Which I have been thinking of picking up there multi process machine to try out.

That diversion looks nice though, looking forward to seeing what your thoughts are on it!

 

[Kartorbust]

First welder I bought is a Northern Tool brand, Northern Industrial 140i. It was about $100 or so cheaper than a Hobart. In retrospect, I should've saved for a Hobart 190 multi-plug (110 and 220 volt) or even the Hobart 230.

However I do both flux cored and solid wire with C25 gas just fine. For the record Hobart is made in China, while Miller's are stateside. I've used Miller, Hobart, Lincoln, ESAB and some odd Italian BS Fronius pulse machine, and they all do the job well.

As someone who went to school for welding, my thoughts are buy a welder that can accept shielding gas and can run a spool gun if you choose to. I can run a spool gun on mine, but I'd have to spend an extra $250 for that, on top of another $400 for Argon gas. I always recommend Hobart anyway or something known and/or of equal quality.

Hobart a few years ago had this awesome battery powered welder. It was $2000 and only did flux cored, but it was great for off roaders. They discontinued it, since the price was very high and with that it didn't catch on to its targeted market.

A designer knows he has achieved perfection, not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.

 

[supermanotorious]

ah dang. I'm interested in the Trek 180, can't seem to find one yet

 

[machinist@large]

I've owned machines from the old "Big Three" (now two) and I've run even more models (as well as different brand's) than that. ATM the only machine I have is a Miller Dial Arc 250 AC/DC machine which I highly recommend for general purpose stick welding because it's dogone versatile.

Here's one for the "Small World" file; one of my friends (and next door neighbor) went to an industrial auction a couple of years ago; guess what he came home with. The switch type Lincoln tombstone AC/DC machine with the custom cart that my boss had me build with the machine as a training session for me. That was almost 25 year's after that business got shut down by the bank. It was old when I was learning to use it, but it still does a great job.

If I have to choose between the two, I'll take the Lincoln for portability (it's less than half the size of the Miller), but I'll take the Miller for most common use because of the more advanced control panel. The fine adjustment features arf(rheostat amp control) as well as the ~50% higher duty cycle don't hurt either.

As for work, the only Lincoln machine we have left is older than I am. AC/DC Tig. It's also technically mine, as it's been relegated to toolroom use. It has issues, but I've been able to do some nice work with it. And what it can do, it still does well. If they offered it to me, I'd take it home......

If you want a full inventory of what we run at work, that may take as long as a week because of my work load...........

I will leave you with this, though; if you are a stick welder, the most awesome DC only machine's are the rotary Lincoln Pipeliner machine's. Inverter, diode rectified, those babies top them all. To bad all the used one's I've come across use a three phase AC motor to run the DC side. And the amps required are well above most home setups.......

 

[OzFab]

For the record Hobart is made in China

Now, there's a difference between "made in China" & "chinese made"; Anything made in china for a brand name company (like Hobart) is of a much higher standard than any chinese off brand because it must meet the company's warranty standards; if it doesn't, then it's sold as a cheaper off brand...

FYI: Honda do the same thing with GX engines...

 

[Jfive]

I have three Chinese welders. One HF 80 amp dc inverter stick 110 and then a non working 90 amp HF dc converted parking lot sale flux core and like said above work rather well. Mine was an open box no warranty so the feed roller quit and now I need one.

I'd buy the Eastwood 220 setup with the spool gun if I hadn't wasted so much already. Then I have a AHP 200 ac/dc tig that's 110/220 and has pedal hf start and pulse setting. I learned on a synchro wave 200 miller. I like the Chinese welders for what they are.

The 80 amp has been used a ton. Used 6013 5/64 cause they run the best or 3/32 308/309l rods. Wish they had a 5/64 7018 personally.

Guy I work with bought a 250.00 plasma off amazon and it works pretty good for 250.00 so far. Lotus brand.

I like miller, Lincoln, esab, Hobart, and the Chinese welders that work. Know a few guys that have had really good luck with everlast and longevity welders so lots of bigger names to choose from anymore. Having a warranty and having a company stand by there product is big to me though.

 

[itsid]

Anyway, I just wanted to point out to those that say, buy a cheap chinese welder, you wont use it much and its so much cheaper than a lincoln, miller, whatever... You can buy a used miller in good shape, and sell it 5 years down the road for what you bought it for.

Just my 2 cents.

While I totally agree that you likely won't loose any money in buying a good welder..

you BIND money.. money you will have to have just to bind it to a welder for a period of time.

So for a quick bead down the tube... it's much easier to loosen a hundred bucks for the chinese MIG or fluxcore than to split from 500 or 900 even.

and then again.. a used chinese (say 60 bucks) won't loose any more as long as it's working you can always sell it for at least 50 in a single day as well. 60 if you wait a second day...


So yeah everything you said is true.. still for some.. the chinese welder makes sense

'sid

 

[Kartorbust]

But with Craigslist and other online classifieds, you could save a ton of money on a welder and still get a name brand for cheap, usually with a bottle of gas. Then you just bring it to a welding supply shop and exchange for a new bottle for $45.

A designer knows he has achieved perfection, not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.

 

[Functional Artist]

While I totally agree that you likely won't loose any money in buying a good welder..

you BIND money.. money you will have to have just to bind it to a welder for a period of time.

So for a quick bead down the tube... it's much easier to loosen a hundred bucks for the chinese MIG or fluxcore than to split from 500 or 900 even.

and then again.. a used chinese (say 60 bucks) won't loose any more as long as it's working you can always sell it for at least 50 in a single day as well. 60 if you wait a second day...


So yeah everything you said is true.. still for some.. the chinese welder makes sense

'sid

I think, for the average DIY'er, (cheap + accessible = doable)

When I wanted to start building my own frames I went to the library & got a couple of books.

After I read them a few times, I felt comfortable enough to buy my first welder.

With coupon in hand I bought the HF 70 amp stick.

That's what I learned on.

Worked great but, the sticking (of the rod to the work) drove me nuts!

...and actually, I think it was a video by Kartfab, I watched a long time ago, where he put a prepared piece of "tube" up to another tube & using a wire welder he just proceeded to weld it.

No sticking, No clean up of nastiness, No mess.

I was like, I gotta get me one of those.

Name brand didn't even come to mind.

I was thinkin' (accessable + wire welder = success)

Happenstance: Around the same time someone broke into my workshop & cleaned out most of my tools. (they even unbolted the bench grinder)

So again, coupon in hand, I went & got the HF 90 amp.

Wow! what a difference.

That was like 4 years ago, (3 karts later) and it's still going strong.

 

[Bwdeaton]

I had the 90 amp harbor freight, which worked, but i was always looking to get e better welder for a good price used. A few months ago, I bought a used lincoln pro-mig 175 with a bottle, and I love how much cleaner my fab work looks now. I'm looking on craigslist all the time, but I find great deals that i can fix and flip or keep.
I think the 90 amp is a great place for people to get started with wire welding.

 

[machinist@large]

I'm still trying to get back to where I was a half decade ago; that's why the TIG rig and the Lincoln 135 MIG are long gone. I've managed to keep the Miller Dial Arc 250 though. Is it as nice as having machines of all three types at your fingertips? Nope. But can I make it work? Oh yeah.

 

[Kartorbust]

I'm still trying to get back to where I was a half decade ago; that's why the TIG rig and the Lincoln 135 MIG are long gone. I've managed to keep the Miller Dial Arc 250 though. Is it as nice as having machines of all three types at your fingertips? Nope. But can I make it work? Oh yeah.

Larger the machine, the more flexibility you have in my mind. All you do is switch tips from say 0.045 to 0.023 and you can do sheet metal. Then just switch back and you could do plate. I'd rather have more machine than I need, than too small and want more. I kind of feel that the 140i and 190 welders are probably the best mid range. Then if you need more power, jump to a 230 or so. Larger the machine, the longer your duty cycle is. Though, how many diy'ers on here have a 240 volt receptacle? My guess not a whole lot.

A designer knows he has achieved perfection, not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.

 

[machinist@large]

Larger the machine, the more flexibility you have in my mind. All you do is switch tips from say 0.045 to 0.023 and you can do sheet metal. Then just switch back and you could do plate. I'd rather have more machine than I need, than too small and want more. I kind of feel that the 140i and 190 welders are probably the best mid range. Then if you need more power, jump to a 230 or so. Larger the machine, the longer your duty cycle is. Though, how many diy'ers on here have a 240 volt receptacle? My guess not a whole lot.

A designer knows he has achieved perfection, not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.

My Miller Dial Arc 250 is an AC/DC stick welder...?.....???......???????.

 

[Kartorbust]

I thought it was a wire feed not a stick.

A designer knows he has achieved perfection, not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.