Buyer Beware icebox187

[rmm727]

I was the purchaser in this thread.

http://www.diygokarts.com/vb/showthread.php?t=23827

In the for sale ad, the item was listed as a "nice torque converter" only needing cleaning before use. When I got the item I noticed that the driven spring appeared to be unwound, the sprocket had hooked teeth, the cam buttons on the driven were worn, and the rivets on the driven were loose. What really takes the cake is that he (icebox187) appears to have shipped the item in the box a new Comet TAV2 would have arrived in. I sent him a pm about it, even make a video about my concerns that I will post below. He said he was heading to work and would get back to me. A month goes by and I send him a pm asking if he forgot about me. He replies that he hadn't forgot about me and that he didn't think there was an issue with what I had brought up.

Here is his response to my questions.

Me I am rather disappointed that one would ship something like this in a box with NO crumpled newspaper, packing peanuts, or bubble wrap. Its not like it was going up on a shelf, it was going thru the postal service, UPS, etc. They are not easy on stuff. You should have seen what the box looked like. Also, the driven clutch has loose rivets and the teeth on the sprocket are hooked to the point that I would deem it unserviceable. Your ad listed this as a "Nice" torque converter. Not with loose rivets and a worn out sprocket. After looking at the one component of the drive clutch and the wear pattern from the belt, that component might be bent or at the least a bit un-true.

icebox187 It worked fine when I removed it. What component of the drive clutch are you speaking of? That stuff was all straight when I pulled it, and I don't recall any issues with the sprocket. Please send me some pics of the concerns you have and maybe we can work something out.

Me Here's a link to some videos I made.

http://s1206.photobucket.com/user/rm...85779615356026

I compared the sprocket to a good used one I have (but unfortunately won't work on this because its from a Baja Warrior and they use a metric bore)

I pointed out my concern with the drive clutch. That's not my biggest concern though but I am confused by the wear marks on it (where the rust is worn off) because it should all be shiny as the belt would start in toward the center and work its way outward polishing off any rust.

My biggest concern is the driven clutch. Those rivets being loose and also the driven spring and cam buttons. Did you tear the driven apart and not get the spring preloaded correctly when put back together? The spring looks like it is unwound a litte. I have a TAV on my BSR and can't barely squeeze the sheaves apart. On this one it is quite easy.

icebox187 I never had it apart and I only saw it run once before I took it off to install the new engine. But, it does appear that the spring doesn't have the correct load on it. I'm on my way to work, so I will get back to this afterwards.

Me Did you forget about me? I just bought a new Chinese TAV kit for another project and judging by its spring, the spring in the driven you sold me is garbage. Not even close on spring tension.

icebox187 The springs are like six bucks, the cam buttons you mentioned are like five for a pack of three, and the crush rivets you mentioned are cheap and easily replaceable. I didnt forget, I just dont think the things you are mentioning are that critical. Did you rewind the spring thats in it? My best advice would be to fix the spring issue (probably unwound although I never took that apart) put it on a kart and try it out. If there is binding between the sprocket and chain, change sprockets. If the cam buttons cause any issues, change them. If the rivets are too loose for you crush them back down or put new ones in.

Me That's all fine and dandy but you listed this as a "nice" torque converter. I don't consider it nice when I need to put $20-$25 plus shipping into a used TC. You only mentioned that it should be cleaned.

No response from icebox187. I would be happy with a refund of $15 to buy a new spring and sprocket. They cost more than that and when you add on shipping its still gonna cost me but that would make me satisfied.

Videos of the item I received.

 

[rmm727]

You make your own conclusions here. I need to take a picture of the box he shipped it in because I forgot how poorly he packaged the item.

 

[machinist@large]

Looks like the bought a new one, and decided to get as much back as possible at someone else's expense. The fact that he apparently used the SAME BOX that his new toy came in just adds insult to injury.

It never ceases to amaze me that people like that exist; what is really disgusting is how they are usually the first to scream over any perceived slight....

Rm, if there is any justice in this world, there is a special place in H**l waiting for people like that......

 

[OzFab]

Although I understand your frustration, I feel I need to point out one or two things:
1. As your heading states, let the buyer beware! I've also had some poor dealings in the past with items not being as described but, in most cases, they were worked out amicably.
2. $60 was his asking price which sounds cheap to me; if you paid less than that, even better...
3. I agree, the ad should've been a bit more descriptive but, there's no reason you couldn't ask for more pics...

A good plan of action would've been to contact a mod before posting this thread, we probably would've had more luck reaching a compromise...

Has there been any new contact recently? Please let one of us know directly when contact is made.

I hope we can work this out for you...

 

[Doc Sprocket]

A good plan of action would've been to contact a mod before posting this thread, we probably would've had more luck reaching a compromise...

He did. I advised him to make one further attempt at private contact before making a public posting.

It is my personal opinion that the item was largely misrepresented, and that ain't right. As for pics and such, there's only so far that pics will get you. Indeed a pitfall of buying "unseen", but I would like to think that the seller would be completely forthright. Instead of "nice" or whatever, should have been "as is" or "for parts" or "needs rebuilding", not a cleaning...

We ALL need to keep in mind that a deal through DIYGK's classified section is indeed a private deal, and DIYGK's sole function is to be the vehicle. We are not in any way involved in the transaction, and not in recourse either. Should someone turn out to be a complete scammer, we will ban the offender and quite possibly publish a notice. But this is a case of misrepresentation at worst, and not a scam.

I do sincerely hope this comes to a peaceful close. I have chosen to let this thread stand as an attention getter for the seller. Under NO circumstances is it to turn into a flame war, or anything of the sort.

 

[rmm727]

I was about to respond to Fabroman but Doc beat me to it. I was in the basement an hour or so ago to look at the driven clutch some more and to take the snap ring off and look at the driven spring. Well...found out why the rivets are loose, the fixed side of the driven clutch has cracks around all the rivets. Nice. Anyways, like the mods have said, this is just for your information. He has his side of the story. Not expecting the forum to be able to do anything about it.

 

[machinist@large]

Yeah, but it still sucks, though, even though it didn't happen to me....

 

[Oxymoron]

Grossly misrepresented. I completely agree with rmm727.

I'd be pissed. Very.

If it were local, I'd be having a "chat" with him that may or may not lead to him making an appointment with his dentist.

 

[OzFab]

He did. I advised him to make one further attempt at private contact before making a public posting.

Which is exactly what I would've done

It is my personal opinion that the item was largely misrepresented, and that ain't right. As for pics and such, there's only so far that pics will get you. Indeed a pitfall of buying "unseen", but I would like to think that the seller would be completely forthright. Instead of "nice" or whatever, should have been "as is" or "for parts" or "needs rebuilding", not a cleaning...

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to lay the blame on rmm727 in any way; I agree, the description should've been ... well... more descript...

 

[firemanjim]

I hate liars, cheats, and thieves....... This sounds like all 3...... What an A§§! To send it in the box from his new one.....
Im the type that will tell you about the bad, and let the good speak for its self. Been tryin to sell my sand rail with an extra , bigger motor. I tell every interested party that the current motor runs, BUT it has un correctable crank end play and will need to be rebuilt, eventually. I dont want to just tell em it runs when I know its on its way to the grave in reality. Thats y I threw in the bigger, mechanically sound, engine with it. I dont need karma breathing down my neck.....

 

[Oxymoron]

Just to lighten the mood a bit... rmm727, has anyone ever told you that your voice sounds a lot like Danny McBride?

You could be a voice stunt double.

*big cheese*