I believe this was me...except I was talking about the Subarus as someone recommended (an EX21), and I said there was more available for a Briggs than a clone, as I'm picking the Briggs over the clone here.
briggs vs clone
- Thread starter kendelrk
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I believe this was me...except I was talking about the Subarus as someone recommended (an EX21), and I said there was more available for a Briggs than a clone, as I'm picking the Briggs over the clone here.
kendelrk
redneck engineer
redsox, so am i
r97
Measure twice cut once
I chose the briggs over the clone.
Honda GX series:
good,
-Amazing reliability
-Great warranty
-Lots of parts (performance, and replacement)
-Resale value
bad,
-Expensive
-Technology does lack that of the Subaru
Robin Subaru EX series:
good,
-Uses more advanced chain drive OHC technology
-Not overly expensive
-Extremely reliable
-Parts are available
-3 year commercial warranty
bad,
-Parts do require a bit of research to find.
-Less expensive, but still a decent chunk of cash.
Briggs and Stratton:
good,
-Old flat heads, and new commercial OHV engines are well built.
-Lots of parts
-Old flat heads are inexpensive, easy to repair, and easy to find.
bad,
-some newer "home use" engines are slightly lacking in quality.
-new engines are pretty expensive
Tecumseh:
good,
-flat heads are cheep, easy to maintain, and reliable.
-replacement stock parts are easy to find
bad,
-Judging from others experiences, there newer OHV engines aren't that great.
Clones:
good,
-cheep
-good design
-lots of aftermarket parts
bad,
-low quality
-must use Honda replacement parts (not cheep compared to the engine)
that is my opinion on the engines as of right now, knowing what i know. If you want to add something to the list let me know.
I am also just going to mention that Subaru actually makes a racing go kart specific engine based of the EX21 called the KX21,
http://www.nr-racing.com/Subarumotors.htm
PLEASE check out the Robin Subaru features and benefits page,
http://robinamerica.com/pfeatures.aspx?pid=8
These deals are amazing!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Robin-Subaru-Engine-9-HP-Free-Shipping-/300587421697?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item45fc681001#ht_657wt_905
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Robin-Subaru-Engine-6-HP-Free-Shipping-/300591927385?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item45fcacd059#ht_637wt_905
http://www.smallenginewarehouse.com/product.asp?PN=EX21-SD&desc=Robin%20America%20engine%20%207hp%20Horizontal%203/4%22%20shaft%20OHV,%20Recoil%20Start,%20Return%20Spring%20Throttle,%20oxidized%20parts
Robin Subaru has a go kart ready throttle setup, factory included cable clamp and return spring were included on my EX17.
performance parts,
http://www.robertsonstorquetubes.com/subaru.htm#ksus
http://www.qrckarts.com/store/index.cfm/category/78/subaru-motors-and-accessories.cfm
http://www.arcracing.com/servlet/the-549/ARC-Billet-Flywheel-Subaru/Detail
http://karting.4cycle.com/showthread.php?t=325247
http://karting.4cycle.com/showthread.php?t=233542
http://karting.4cycle.com/showthread.php?t=139017
IIRC an EX17 head on an EX21 is supposed to work. cyborg also mentioned honda parts.
Honda GX series:
good,
-Amazing reliability
-Great warranty
-Lots of parts (performance, and replacement)
-Resale value
bad,
-Expensive
-Technology does lack that of the Subaru
Robin Subaru EX series:
good,
-Uses more advanced chain drive OHC technology
-Not overly expensive
-Extremely reliable
-Parts are available
-3 year commercial warranty
bad,
-Parts do require a bit of research to find.
-Less expensive, but still a decent chunk of cash.
Briggs and Stratton:
good,
-Old flat heads, and new commercial OHV engines are well built.
-Lots of parts
-Old flat heads are inexpensive, easy to repair, and easy to find.
bad,
-some newer "home use" engines are slightly lacking in quality.
-new engines are pretty expensive
Tecumseh:
good,
-flat heads are cheep, easy to maintain, and reliable.
-replacement stock parts are easy to find
bad,
-Judging from others experiences, there newer OHV engines aren't that great.
Clones:
good,
-cheep
-good design
-lots of aftermarket parts
bad,
-low quality
-must use Honda replacement parts (not cheep compared to the engine)
that is my opinion on the engines as of right now, knowing what i know. If you want to add something to the list let me know.
I am also just going to mention that Subaru actually makes a racing go kart specific engine based of the EX21 called the KX21,
http://www.nr-racing.com/Subarumotors.htm
PLEASE check out the Robin Subaru features and benefits page,
http://robinamerica.com/pfeatures.aspx?pid=8
These deals are amazing!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Robin-Subaru-Engine-9-HP-Free-Shipping-/300587421697?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item45fc681001#ht_657wt_905
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Robin-Subaru-Engine-6-HP-Free-Shipping-/300591927385?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item45fcacd059#ht_637wt_905
http://www.smallenginewarehouse.com/product.asp?PN=EX21-SD&desc=Robin%20America%20engine%20%207hp%20Horizontal%203/4%22%20shaft%20OHV,%20Recoil%20Start,%20Return%20Spring%20Throttle,%20oxidized%20parts
Robin Subaru has a go kart ready throttle setup, factory included cable clamp and return spring were included on my EX17.
performance parts,
http://www.robertsonstorquetubes.com/subaru.htm#ksus
http://www.qrckarts.com/store/index.cfm/category/78/subaru-motors-and-accessories.cfm
http://www.arcracing.com/servlet/the-549/ARC-Billet-Flywheel-Subaru/Detail
http://karting.4cycle.com/showthread.php?t=325247
http://karting.4cycle.com/showthread.php?t=233542
http://karting.4cycle.com/showthread.php?t=139017
IIRC an EX17 head on an EX21 is supposed to work. cyborg also mentioned honda parts.
kendelrk
redneck engineer
and also, when you look at a blueprinted con rod for a briggs, you see it for like 20 bucks, when you look at them for clone, your talking 60 to 100 bucksthe-cyborg
New member
Back to the main question/poll Clone vs briggs flat head
Like azz holes everybody has an opinion, but I'm going to not only give my opinion, I'm going to share my experiences with both.
To directly answer the question Briggs Flat head all the way, no brainier for me.
To me it's like comparing a Timex to a Rolex as far as quality.
That being said I own and have owned quite a few of both of different flavors.
Clones:
Yellow BSP stage3 (on my 17yo sons kart)
Jiangdong (just sold with the Indy kart)
HF Greyhound (on my daughters kart)
HF Predator (Wife's kart)
Lifan (Oldest sons kart)
Briggs Flat head
5hp I/C (sever different year models)
Raptor I
Raptor II
Raptor III (my carter single seat )
Either choice have tones of performance parts that can easily be found.
Fist thing I'm going to tell you is fact some may try and argue, but I'm 45 years old and have been in and around karting, race karting, and kart engines of all sorts 2 and 4 cycle so I'm not going to argue with any one on the matter, so hear goes.
It doesn't matter who makes the clone or what you do to it, even the Briggs I/C is a way better quality engine period.
My younger sons kart with the yellow BSP vs my kart with the raptor III.
We have identical Carter single seat chassis with identical gearing just different colors and different engines.
Now don't get me wrong, my sons cart is quuuuuick, and I out weigh him by 75-80 lbs.
Off the line ?
No contest I'll take him every time.
Flat out run:
Again, I'll take him by 3-4 cart lengths every time
Track race?
I can take him 1/4 to 1/2 lap (hehe he'll never beat his old man even if he strapped a rocket to it.)
That being said this kid saved up his money and spent over $700 on this thing and in all honesty it is a nice setup but doesn't have nor do I believe it will ever quite have the bawlz.
Let me back up and state that both engines are heavily modified, and are pretty much equal, or at least should be with the mods we've done, however he can only turn about 7k or so rpm with his blueprinted, decked out BSP, where I run 7500-8k all day long.
Believe me when I tell you we are speed freaks, and are always searching to find a little more, and won't be satisfied until they hydroplane and flip like those speed boats do.
Now that I got that Raptor I from osso12 my son has worried the crap out of me to build it out and put it on his kart, and will probably end up putting the BSP up for sale.
He feels like we have hit the limits on the BSP on what you can ask of it, and I tend to agree.
You can name it what ever you want, paint it what ever color you want, shine it up, pour hundreds dollars into it, but it will always be just a clone, substandard and lacking.
** End of rant**
In closing I will say there is a place for the clones, and they are what they are, and do it well, but personally I have never understood why in the world anyone would buy a $100-$175 substandard engine and then spend hundreds or in some cases thousands in a quest to turn something into something it ain't.
Again this has been my personal findings, and I know there are those of you that will disagree, that's okay your entitled to your opinion, and there is nothing that nobody can say that will cause me to change mine.
You want a decent engine on the cheep by all means buy a clone and mod it a little. (don't expect it to be something it was never meant to be)
If you want a quality engine still somewhat on the cheep buy any raptor series and mod it a little. and expect it to be what it was designed to be a true race engine by design.
You want a good quality OHV engine, buy a true GX or Subaru either will give you many years of good service.
*Note*
Even though the flat head I/C looks similar to the raptor they in no way share any of the same internal parts.
the I/C is an industrial engine buy design, and the raptor's are race engines by design.
Yellow BSP is a race engine by design.
all other clones by design are industrial engines.
*End note*
Like azz holes everybody has an opinion, but I'm going to not only give my opinion, I'm going to share my experiences with both.
To directly answer the question Briggs Flat head all the way, no brainier for me.
To me it's like comparing a Timex to a Rolex as far as quality.
That being said I own and have owned quite a few of both of different flavors.
Clones:
Yellow BSP stage3 (on my 17yo sons kart)
Jiangdong (just sold with the Indy kart)
HF Greyhound (on my daughters kart)
HF Predator (Wife's kart)
Lifan (Oldest sons kart)
Briggs Flat head
5hp I/C (sever different year models)
Raptor I
Raptor II
Raptor III (my carter single seat )
Either choice have tones of performance parts that can easily be found.
Fist thing I'm going to tell you is fact some may try and argue, but I'm 45 years old and have been in and around karting, race karting, and kart engines of all sorts 2 and 4 cycle so I'm not going to argue with any one on the matter, so hear goes.
It doesn't matter who makes the clone or what you do to it, even the Briggs I/C is a way better quality engine period.
My younger sons kart with the yellow BSP vs my kart with the raptor III.
We have identical Carter single seat chassis with identical gearing just different colors and different engines.
Now don't get me wrong, my sons cart is quuuuuick, and I out weigh him by 75-80 lbs.
Off the line ?
No contest I'll take him every time.
Flat out run:
Again, I'll take him by 3-4 cart lengths every time
Track race?
I can take him 1/4 to 1/2 lap (hehe he'll never beat his old man even if he strapped a rocket to it.)
That being said this kid saved up his money and spent over $700 on this thing and in all honesty it is a nice setup but doesn't have nor do I believe it will ever quite have the bawlz.
Let me back up and state that both engines are heavily modified, and are pretty much equal, or at least should be with the mods we've done, however he can only turn about 7k or so rpm with his blueprinted, decked out BSP, where I run 7500-8k all day long.
Believe me when I tell you we are speed freaks, and are always searching to find a little more, and won't be satisfied until they hydroplane and flip like those speed boats do.
Now that I got that Raptor I from osso12 my son has worried the crap out of me to build it out and put it on his kart, and will probably end up putting the BSP up for sale.
He feels like we have hit the limits on the BSP on what you can ask of it, and I tend to agree.
You can name it what ever you want, paint it what ever color you want, shine it up, pour hundreds dollars into it, but it will always be just a clone, substandard and lacking.
** End of rant**
In closing I will say there is a place for the clones, and they are what they are, and do it well, but personally I have never understood why in the world anyone would buy a $100-$175 substandard engine and then spend hundreds or in some cases thousands in a quest to turn something into something it ain't.
Again this has been my personal findings, and I know there are those of you that will disagree, that's okay your entitled to your opinion, and there is nothing that nobody can say that will cause me to change mine.
You want a decent engine on the cheep by all means buy a clone and mod it a little. (don't expect it to be something it was never meant to be)
If you want a quality engine still somewhat on the cheep buy any raptor series and mod it a little. and expect it to be what it was designed to be a true race engine by design.
You want a good quality OHV engine, buy a true GX or Subaru either will give you many years of good service.
*Note*
Even though the flat head I/C looks similar to the raptor they in no way share any of the same internal parts.
the I/C is an industrial engine buy design, and the raptor's are race engines by design.
Yellow BSP is a race engine by design.
all other clones by design are industrial engines.
*End note*
kendelrk
redneck engineer
i very well agree, what performance parts do you have on your briggs to make it turn what its turning now? and another side question, i heard all over the net from everyone and a few shops that deal with karts and bikes, ive heard diffrent, but what ive most heard is putting a nice pipe on it, around 10 to 11 inch, will increase 1 hp on any briggs, and then all your other mods blahh blahh blahh, but is it true it ads about 1 hp? i think ill take my briggs over my clone, and not upset anyone, but my mini bike over my go kart, being that my kart frame is crap, and has bad steering and no tires, and a peice of **** clone, from hf, while my mini bike is running a 5hp flathead straight piped (look at my adventure of the mini bike thread to see it run) and it seems like the engine has the oomph, an extra side question, is 10 tooth clutch to 72 tooth rear sprocket a good ratio for this engine? but i think id take a briggs over a clone anyday, but not a tecumseh, because me and tecumseh dont get along well, being i got both terrible tecumsehs,
B man
Tecumseh FTW!
Back to the main question/poll Clone vs briggs flat head
Like azz holes everybody has an opinion, but I'm going to not only give my opinion, I'm going to share my experiences with both.
To directly answer the question Briggs Flat head all the way, no brainier for me.
To me it's like comparing a Timex to a Rolex as far as quality.
That being said I own and have owned quite a few of both of different flavors.
Clones:
Yellow BSP stage3 (on my 17yo sons kart)
Jiangdong (just sold with the Indy kart)
HF Greyhound (on my daughters kart)
HF Predator (Wife's kart)
Lifan (Oldest sons kart)
Briggs Flat head
5hp I/C (sever different year models)
Raptor I
Raptor II
Raptor III (my carter single seat )
Either choice have tones of performance parts that can easily be found.
Fist thing I'm going to tell you is fact some may try and argue, but I'm 45 years old and have been in and around karting, race karting, and kart engines of all sorts 2 and 4 cycle so I'm not going to argue with any one on the matter, so hear goes.
It doesn't matter who makes the clone or what you do to it, even the Briggs I/C is a way better quality engine period.
My younger sons kart with the yellow BSP vs my kart with the raptor III.
We have identical Carter single seat chassis with identical gearing just different colors and different engines.
Now don't get me wrong, my sons cart is quuuuuick, and I out weigh him by 75-80 lbs.
Off the line ?
No contest I'll take him every time.
Flat out run:
Again, I'll take him by 3-4 cart lengths every time
Track race?
I can take him 1/4 to 1/2 lap (hehe he'll never beat his old man even if he strapped a rocket to it.)
That being said this kid saved up his money and spent over $700 on this thing and in all honesty it is a nice setup but doesn't have nor do I believe it will ever quite have the bawlz.
Let me back up and state that both engines are heavily modified, and are pretty much equal, or at least should be with the mods we've done, however he can only turn about 7k or so rpm with his blueprinted, decked out BSP, where I run 7500-8k all day long.
Believe me when I tell you we are speed freaks, and are always searching to find a little more, and won't be satisfied until they hydroplane and flip like those speed boats do.
Now that I got that Raptor I from osso12 my son has worried the crap out of me to build it out and put it on his kart, and will probably end up putting the BSP up for sale.
He feels like we have hit the limits on the BSP on what you can ask of it, and I tend to agree.
You can name it what ever you want, paint it what ever color you want, shine it up, pour hundreds dollars into it, but it will always be just a clone, substandard and lacking.
** End of rant**
In closing I will say there is a place for the clones, and they are what they are, and do it well, but personally I have never understood why in the world anyone would buy a $100-$175 substandard engine and then spend hundreds or in some cases thousands in a quest to turn something into something it ain't.
Again this has been my personal findings, and I know there are those of you that will disagree, that's okay your entitled to your opinion, and there is nothing that nobody can say that will cause me to change mine.
You want a decent engine on the cheep by all means buy a clone and mod it a little. (don't expect it to be something it was never meant to be)
If you want a quality engine still somewhat on the cheep buy any raptor series and mod it a little. and expect it to be what it was designed to be a true race engine by design.
You want a good quality OHV engine, buy a true GX or Subaru either will give you many years of good service.
*Note*
Even though the flat head I/C looks similar to the raptor they in no way share any of the same internal parts.
the I/C is an industrial engine buy design, and the raptor's are race engines by design.
Yellow BSP is a race engine by design.
all other clones by design are industrial engines.
*End note*
Well said!
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