Brake Effectiveness

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sno-kart

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So we just learned that the "45HP" liquid cooled 440cc two stroke snowmobile engine we rebuilt for our go kart actually has around 77HP :wai:

As fun and ridiculous as that # is, we are now seriously rethinking a few things, the most important being the brakes. We realize that with that much power on a race kart we should be putting in front brakes, but it is just out of our budget. So our next thought is to get two front calipers off of a sport bike with the master cylinder and mount these to the rear axle. These can be had for under $100 used on ebay and should be very effective. The problem is that motorcycle front rotors tend to have a large diameter (~10 or 11") and since our wheels are 11", this is a no go. We have a 7" MCP go kart rotor which is the correct thickness to fit most motorcycle calipers so we want to use that, but we will definitely have less brake pad contacting the rotor since the diameter is significantly smaller.

The other issue we have is that we really only have space for one rotor/caliper on our rear axle but would love to have the braking power of two calipers. All this being said, we have a few questions, the answers to which would really help us figure out how to move forward.

- Will a caliper designed for an 11" rotor lose a significant amount of its effectiveness on a smaller 7" rotor?

- Is mounting 2 calipers on one rotor a possibility, or is it pointless / potentially unsafe?

- As a more general question about braking systems, what is it that decides the effectiveness of the brakes? I'm guessing the force with which the pads "clamp" the rotor is one factor, and I also know that heat dissipation plays a role, but if one caliper is enough to lock up the rear axle, then is a second one really necessary?

- Since we have a jackshaft in our setup, would putting one caliper on the jackshaft and one on the rear axle be a good idea? I would guess that we would gain some mechanical advantage by having a brake on the jackshaft, but would of course want one on the axle in case our chain snaps.

Here is an example of what we are thinking of buying:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/350674538130?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

Thanks!!
 

Doc Sprocket

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If you have a GOOD hydro setup (sportbike), I don't see a point to two of them. One will lock 'em up easy. What's the point of two?

When you're dealing with all kinds of speed and performance, a rear-only brake system can be a real detriment. I truly think you're better off saving your nickels for awhile to get fronts.
 

sno-kart

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The second one would be useless it was discussed recently that if you locked it up with one it would do the same with multiple ones

I know this was discussed, but I guess I just don't understand it. If that's the case, then why do all sportbikes have 2 front calipers/rotors and not just one?
 

Doc Sprocket

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I honestly believe it's more flair than anything. Perhaps it is to increase effectiveness in wet conditions. But when you do the math on it all, it appears to be overkill.
 

OzFab

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- Will a caliper designed for an 11" rotor lose a significant amount of its effectiveness on a smaller 7" rotor?

Absolutely! Disc pads are made to fit the disc. A pad made to fit an 11" disc will have a different shape to one made for a 7" disc & will not wear correctly.

- Is mounting 2 calipers on one rotor a possibility, or is it pointless / potentially unsafe?

You've seen 6 piston calipers, right? Super efficient! But, 6 single piston calipers is not exactly the same thing as, on a 6 piston caliper, all the pistons work together where the singles all work at slightly different rates.

Having said that, it's possible to mount 2 calipers on the same disc. If they're mounted opposite each other, you "potentially" double your braking power but, will this setup be overefficient?

- As a more general question about braking systems, what is it that decides the effectiveness of the brakes? I'm guessing the force with which the pads "clamp" the rotor is one factor, and I also know that heat dissipation plays a role, but if one caliper is enough to lock up the rear axle, then is a second one really necessary?

If one caliper continuously locks up, that's overefficiency & pointless. Adding a second caliper will only make it worse.

There are many factors that need to be considered when setting up brake systems, an important one being weight:
Theoretically, you could put a 13" disc with a 6 piston caliper on your kart but, will it be effective? Probably not. Why? Because there would not be enough weight to create enough downward force on the wheels to prevent them from locking up.

I can now hear you asking "so why do sports bikes have that setup twice?" Because most of the weight of the rider & some of the bikes is exerted on the front of the bike. Next time you see a bike with this setup, have a look at the rear brakes...
 

smgs92

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you can order the spiderbox hydraulic brakes that come with everything but a rotor for $100 on bmi
 

usuallyalex

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I'm having the same dilemma - i put the HF 420cc on my buggy with a single rear rotor (!) and it's pretty much useless. I was thinking that the MCP kit was my best option:

http://www.cometkartsales.com/store/brakes/paulfbkt.htm

As I'm guessing that by the time I've got two of the spiderbox (or equivalent) calipers above as well as rotors, spacers, etc. I'll be spending $400+ anyway.

Did you make a decision?
 
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