Best Gas/Additive?

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Orange Krate

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I used to never have problems with regular unleaded pump gas. Here lately I'm having tons! This week I'm dumping tanks and cleaning carbs.

What's the best gas with or without additives for old flatheads?

I've heard:
Anything without ethanol. No pump gas! Aviation gas. No aviation gas...Race gas! No race gas!..(unless you mix it with regular unleaded pump gas.) Stabil with any gas. Heet. And, 4 cycle canned gas from Home Depot.
 

crazykart

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I'm not sure if it's the "best" but I've never had a problem with mid-octane gas, but I also get a bottle of 91% isopropyl alcohol to mix in. One 16oz bottle to every 5 gals of mid-octane. I've ran a lot of old equipment with the flatheads and rarely ever even had to clean carbs doing this.
 

justinlogue5_0

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The ethanol is killing the carbs on everything. Have to run that ethanol additive heavy in all my motors to keep from ruining them. Two stroke are even worse!
 

B.M.800

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I was wondering too if there is any sort of additives that would be beneficial in my small engines.
Should I add something to the oil on the older engines?


I don't know if it really helps any, but Ive put some marvel mystery oil in em...


{EDIT}
I replaced some carb parts on a 70s something 8hp briggs. There was some sort of goolosh/crud/grime/gruel/swill/slime/stuff clogging up the carb. Figured that was caused by fuel with ethanol in it?
 

shyflyguy

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Ethanol = Water, Gasoline = Fire

Ethanol is :censored:, and small engines just don't run as well with it. My best advice is to find a gas station near you that sells 100% gasoline, no ethanol. Your engines will run best on that. You can find stations near you at Pure-gas.org. Yes you pay more for it, but if you don't have to drop your carbs every year it's more than worth the headache in time and swearing.
Alternatively, when I couldn't get 100% gasoline I used Sta-Bil Ethanol Treatment. This one is the marine variant, although it works just as well in small equipment engines too. I've run it through several lawnmowers, weedeaters, and a chainsaw before I found a 100% gas station. ISO-HEET is also a good product if you've left ethanol gas sit a while before adding a stabilizer.

<Steps onto soapbox>
Ethanol is just a bad idea all around!
This is horrible if you are letting the mixture sit for any period of time more than a couple weeks, like unused lawnmowers, go karts, chainsaws, weedeaters, etc over the winter months. Here's why:

A) It increases the octane rating of a gasoline/ethanol blend.
Wait that's good right? No, because the oil companies are using the increase from ethanol to get to the minimum octane rating and hence are using a lower octane rated gasoline in the mixture.

B) Ethanol does not chemically bond with gasoline.
This means that it's simply a mixture of gasoline and ethanol, and will separate out from each other given a time frame. If you don't know what a separated mixture is, take a small clear glass, pour water and some vegetable oil in it. The oil will always rise to the top when it sits, no matter how much you stir it. Gasoline and ethanol will do the same thing, although not as quickly. You can also search Youtube.

C) Ethanol chemically bonds with water. (Drying agent)
Ethanol will remove water from anything around it. Because the ethanol-water molecule is heavier than fuel it sinks to the bottom of the tank separating into layers even faster. Of course the bottom of the tank is right where your fuel pick up is. So when you go to start your engine after it's been sitting, you're getting mostly the ethanol-water mix and not the gasoline you need. Now remember the gas that's left is a lower octane than it was with the ethanol mixed in suspension. Stirring up the tank, may help, but you're still trying to burn ethanol-water molecules. Remember you're also dealing with the separated fuel that's in the fuel lines and carburetor.

D) Ethanol requires a higher temperature to burn.
Yeap, you've got a cold engine that's been sitting for months, trying to get it started by burning a gas-ethanol mixture which requires a higher temperature and hotter spark to burn. If you changed your spark plug, or cleaned it off, and have a good strong ignition coil this may be fine. Until you realize you're now trying to burn the ethanol-water molecules first from the bottom of the tank. Now your increased spark requirement must also break the ethanol away from the water first, making it a higher requirement than most small engines can manage.

E) Ethanol is a solvent.
That keeps my engine clean right? Well yes, but what happens you use a solvent on gaskets, seals, and hoses which are made of soft pliable rubber? You guessed it, it slowly erodes the rubber. Combine that with the drying agent factor (which can pull moisture out of the rubber) and you get dried up rubber which leaks, breaks easily, and eventually just falls apart. Well it doesn't just disappear, that dried up rubber has to go somewhere. Most if it goes into the fuel system where the ethanol has been working on it from. So now you've got little bits of rubber gumming up and clogging parts of your fuel system that should flow freely, and other rubber parts that start leaking into areas they shouldn't leak. This is how ethanol destroys carburetors. It works slower on hard plastic and fiberglass, but will erode them as well, adding more debris to the fuel line. The older the rubber/plastic/fiberglass is, the easier it is to erode because it has already lost moisture to the surrounding air.

There are other environmental and economic concerns if you really want to go that far into it, but the above is the actual end user type of stuff. Honestly I make extra effort to buy non-ethanol fuels. I drive an extra mile each way to a gas station that doesn't sell any ethanol, and pay more for it as well. How much more depends on the market, but the average cost is an extra 5-15% over the ethanol fuel based on where you live. Sure you are only getting 10% more gas, but you're also saving on maintenance.
It should be noted that even cars and trucks, unless they were produced in the last several years, will eventually suffer the effects of ethanol. I have a friend who runs an auto repair shop out of his home garage, and he is constantly replacing sections of rubber fuel line on vehicles. Newer vehicles have all aluminum or steel fuel lines so this isn't a problem, but it will still erode the rubber O-rings that are used between fittings.
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Badot

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If you're cleaning out your fuel system, make sure your tank is cleaned out and the insides of your lines aren't degrading too. If the fuel lines get eaten by the ethanol from the inside it can leave some nasty gunk. Ethanol free gas is generally better for rubber, but it depends largely on the rubber's composition. Anything modern designed for fuel use should be fine.

As far as gas additives, I assume most of them are just snake oil. The engine's designed to run on gas... and if you don't put gas in, you're just putting it further from what it's designed for.

I've heard reasonable anecdotes of TC-W3 being used in 4 strokes to help loosen up gunk and keep stuff from sticking since it doesn't dry up like gasoline. At least that stuff is certified to go into engines and held to standards rather than 'magic fix in a bottle' so it may be worth a try.
 

shyflyguy

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Aviation gas. No aviation gas...Race gas! No race gas!..(unless you mix it with regular unleaded pump gas.) Stabil with any gas. Heet. And, 4 cycle canned gas from Home Depot.

I talked about Evil Ethanol in my last post, so I'm going to hit these up. Relax it will be shorter.

Aviation gas, (AVGAS, 100LL)
This fuel still contains Tetraethyl Lead (TEL). It increases compression, reduces knock, and helps prevent build-up on exhaust valves. It would work fine, but you're doing harm to the environment, and really shouldn't be breathing the exhaust fumes at all. Not to mention it's at least 50% more expensive than pump gas.

Race gas
This has many meanings, and the one I'm least familiar with. However, as it is designed for racing this has high octane ratings, and is meant to produce more power. Hence it does not have the cleaning and lubricating additives found in pump gas. Use at your own peril, you may find increased friction and wear on your engine parts. Being that we're primarily talking about 2-stroke engines here, it's not likely to make enough of a difference.

Additives (STA-BIL, HEET, LucasOil, OctaneBoost, etc.)
These are wide and varied in function. Some are snake oil, some have real value. But in the end remember these are extra chemicals that your engine will have to burn. HEET is a fuel line anti-freeze and water remover, and is fine occasionally if you actually need it. STA-BIL has many products, some of which are specifically designed to combat the effects of ethanol, but it is primarily and additive for gasoline that is being stored over time. OctaneBoost and others like that are usually some form of alcohol that does get the engine burning cleaner and hotter producing more power. They're more like race fuel, no lubricating or protective additives, and not good for long term use.
STA-BIL and HEET have their uses, most others you're better off spending the money on better gas to start with. Think about it, a few extra cents for 91/93 octane from the pump, or $2-4 for an OctaneBoost?

2 or 4 Cycle Gas (Hardware store)
It's usually simply gas and oil pre-mixed in the proper ratio for small engines like weedwackers, chainsaws, leaf blowers, and the like. You can do the same thing at home, cheaper. Larger 2-strokes don't need a gas/oil mix as they already have a separate oil system for lubrication.
 

maxpower49

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Race gas
This has many meanings, and the one I'm least familiar with. However, as it is designed for racing this has high octane ratings, and is meant to produce more power. Hence it does not have the cleaning and lubricating additives found in pump gas. Use at your own peril, you may find increased friction and wear on your engine parts. Being that we're primarily talking about 2-stroke engines here, it's not likely to make enough of a difference.

2 or 4 Cycle Gas (Hardware store)
It's usually simply gas and oil pre-mixed in the proper ratio for small engines like weedwackers, chainsaws, leaf blowers, and the like. You can do the same thing at home, cheaper. Larger 2-strokes don't need a gas/oil mix as they already have a separate oil system for lubrication.

Just a heads up a decent amount of race gas is also leaded in the same way as the av gas is, but there are various other forms that are oxygenated, that is they contain additives that release oxygen when they burn allowing you to add in more fuel and get more power. Race gas dose come in non leaded versions as well some with ethanol some without and all sorts of octane rations as well from 87 octane all the way up to 120 (that would be way overkill for any small engine), with or without lead and with or without oxygen additives.

Second part that I quoted, not all decent sized two strokes have oil injection, depends on the company and the options selected, some Yamaha blasters the 200 cc air cooled atvs do have oil injection as an option but not all of them are oil injected, however if you move up to the Yamaha banshees with the 350 cc liquid cooled two stroke two cylinder engines they are never oil injected and never had that option. I also have friends with various yz 125 and 250 dirt bikes that have to be mixed.

I have a Yamaha banshee that I have bumped the compression up using domed heads and run it on 100ll av gas that I get from a local small air port and I have to mix it to 40:1, I have put at least 500 hours running mixed like that with the av gas until I ran into other issues with piston rings and snapped one and kinda ate up a cylinder :ack2:

All that said any form or race gas or leaded fuel will have dangerous exhaust because of the lead and you will want to avoid getting it on bare skin as well. Also for the most part it is all more expensive than any form of pump gas (av gas is usually double the price of premium in my area) and not really needed unless you are running high compression, lots of timing advance, or high boost from turbos or supercharges. My recommendation is that you find a good reputable gas station that sells lots of fuel, the more they sell the more likely they are to have fresher gas after all the gas you buy could have been sitting under ground in their tanks for weeks to months before you buy it giving you a smaller shelf life in your own can even if you have only had it a few weeks.
 

only126db

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I'm not sure if it's the "best" but I've never had a problem with mid-octane gas, but I also get a bottle of 91% isopropyl alcohol to mix in. One 16oz bottle to every 5 gals of mid-octane. I've ran a lot of old equipment with the flatheads and rarely ever even had to clean carbs doing this.

Why would you add 9% more water to your fuel? 91% iso is 9% water, there is 100% iso but it is expensive....The red bottles of Heet are 100% iso
 

Poboy kartman

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Well.....there's always the old Indian recipe "Poboy Elixir ".....cures ethanol problems, arthurwrongis....(or is that rightis)?....dropsy ,popsy,....and mopsy....

Why.....it'll take 10 years off ya!....(I'm not gonna say which end!)

Soooo....Send $50 to the 'Poboy Fund'.....Wait....act right now....and we'll send a second bottle....(just include sheeting and being handled) full of BS to go with it.....

SATISFACTION GUARANTEED!!!!! If not 100% satisfied....return the unused portion....and pull up to a gas pump....and REALLY get screwed.....
 

crazykart

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The 9% in a 16oz bottle is negligible at best. I add it because it's cheap (free) and it works. Have you ever soaked a nasty, greasy, grimy, caked on, baked on engine component is iso? Ya it takes it right off. Nice and clean after.
 

landuse

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Well.....there's always the old Indian recipe "Poboy Elixir ".....cures ethanol problems, arthurwrongis....(or is that rightis)?....dropsy ,popsy,....and mopsy....

Why.....it'll take 10 years off ya!....(I'm not gonna say which end!)

Soooo....Send $50 to the 'Poboy Fund'.....Wait....act right now....and we'll send a second bottle....(just include sheeting and being handled) full of BS to go with it.....

SATISFACTION GUARANTEED!!!!! If not 100% satisfied....return the unused portion....and pull up to a gas pump....and REALLY get screwed.....

And what do we get if we phone within the next hour....??
 

only126db

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The 9% in a 16oz bottle is negligible at best. I add it because it's cheap (free) and it works. Have you ever soaked a nasty, greasy, grimy, caked on, baked on engine component is iso? Ya it takes it right off. Nice and clean after.

Was just saying.....I got ahold of some fuel from Valero and Admiral locally that had so much water in it it was ridiculous. Adding more to it just doesnt make sense....

Though like I mentioned the red bottles of Heet are 100% Iso (just checked the MSDS and they are 99%), they can be had for $2.

The less water the better.


I use Shell fuel, that has been the best for me I dont have anything older than an 80's 11hp Briggs, but it runs good on 89 Shell fuel. It had sat since mid August, started right up yesterday, ran around the yard mulched some leaves, no issues. :wai:
 
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