Baja 200 Upgrades

[Hellion]

That's when I realized that 1800 RPM is less than stock so the bike took off as soon as I crunk it.

That’s unintentionally funny right there. These OHV engines just can’t idle under 4 digits I don’t think.

 

[panchothedog]

Actually most stock torque converters start engaging at about 1400 rpm. At least that's what the literature says. Don't have a tachometer on anything so I'm really not positive.

 

[joshw0000]

Alright guys, I did a thing and now I need advice. I picked up a used 212 tonight off marketplace. It was posted for $125 and supposedly had "Ghost Mods". It had a torque converter attached, had an aftermarket exhaust & carb, and came with motor risers. He also stated it was governor deleted. He was an hour away from me and assured me it ran fine.

Sooo.... It doesn't run fine. The pull cord was hard to pull and it never actually fired up. The torque converter was misaligned with the belt on it. I took that off and still couldn't get it to fire up. Given everything that comes with it, I didn't want to walk away, but wasn't paying $125. I got it all for $80. So if the motor is trashed, the other stuff is worth that much.

When I got it home, I started tinkering. I cleaned the clogged jet in the carb, adjusted it back to 1.5 turns on both dials, and checked the spark plug for spark. I pulled it many times and it would fire a little bit with brake cleaner in the intake. When I pulled the spark plug, the pull cord was much easier but with it in, it was difficult to pull again. So I opened the valve cover and I think he had adjusted them way to tight. Note - in our conversations, he said he had installed "6 lb valve springs". I'm not even sure that's a thing. I didn't remove them, but I did set the lash to 005 and 007. I haven't tried to crank it again since opening the valve cover.

I also opened the engine to see his handy work. It's pretty bad... He just broke the governor off rather than actually removing it. He didn't remove the oil sensor, and all of this gasket maker junk has to go / be replaced by a real gasket.

Beyond that, I'm not well enough versed to know if anything internally doesn't look right. It looks like there's some sludge in there that I could clean out. Do you see anything that would cause you to pump the brakes on this motor?

My intention is to replace the valve springs with 18 lbs, install an aluminum flywheel, properly delete the governor / oil sensor, polish the exhaust port, clean all the old gaskets / gasket maker and install all new gaskets on the valve cover / motor cover / intake / exhaust, clean the entire exterior while it's apart with brake cleaner, run some 10w30 weight conventional oil for a quick seal break in, then swap over to 10w30 Mobil 1 full synthetic (my go to oil).

What do you think? Should I start ordering parts or look for another engine?

 

[Whitetrashrocker]

You sound savvy.
Remove the governor. Make sure the timing is correct. Slap it together and let her eat.

 

[joshw0000]

You sound savvy.
Remove the governor. Make sure the timing is correct. Slap it together and let her eat.

Lol, everything I know about these engines was in that last post. How do I set the timing? This is actually the first time I've ever opened an engine. I've just watched a ton of YT videos.

Edit - The dots on the crank and cam. I'll check those, thanks.

 

[panchothedog]

Timing is set ( in most cases ) by installing the flywheel. Lap the new flywheel to the crank, clean off lapping compound ( completely ) install key and wheel. Torque to 65 lb. ft. Where the governor wheel was broken off, take a punch and drive the whole thing out of the engine. Thread in a 1/4" X 28 X 3/4" bolt into the vacant hole ( no tap necessary ) the aluminum is soft enough that the bolt will cut its own threads. Do the same on the top of the engine where the other part of the governor was removed if it's still open. Before starting the engine, the valves should be set at .003" cold on both sides. 5 and 7 is too much. Are you aware of how to set the exhaust valve? After it closes there will be a secondary slight bump. This is the compression release activating. Set the valve lash immediately after that. Intake side is straight forward. Hard to comment if anything is wrong with the engine from looking at a picture. Good luck with your build.

 

[joshw0000]

Timing is set ( in most cases ) by installing the flywheel. Lap the new flywheel to the crank, clean off lapping compound ( completely ) install key and wheel. Torque to 65 lb. ft. Where the governor wheel was broken off, take a punch and drive the whole thing out of the engine. Thread in a 1/4" X 28 X 3/4" bolt into the vacant hole ( no tap necessary ) the aluminum is soft enough that the bolt will cut its own threads. Do the same on the top of the engine where the other part of the governor was removed if it's still open. Before starting the engine, the valves should be set at .003" cold on both sides. 5 and 7 is too much. Are you aware of how to set the exhaust valve? After it closes there will be a secondary slight bump. This is the compression release activating. Set the valve lash immediately after that. Intake side is straight forward. Hard to comment if anything is wrong with the engine from looking at a picture. Good luck with your build.

Great info, thanks! I did read that some people set them to 003 but I wasn't sure why so I set them to factory. I'll change it when I install the new springs. I'll do some more research on valve lashing for this motor. I probably did it wrong. I just stuck a screw driver in the spark plug hole and turned it to the highest point. Then I set both valves. I guess I need to turn it in between setting intake and exhaust?

 

[panchothedog]

When you drive the governor out of the engine, you do it from the outside of the engine. The whole thing will fall into the crank case. Doesn't take much. Even a nail set and a couple of medium smacks with a hammer and its out.

 

[panchothedog]

Turn the engine over several times ( with the spark plug removed so it's easy ) and familiarize yourself with the valve action. Especially the exhaust. You'll get it in no time.

 

[joshw0000]

Actually most stock torque converters start engaging at about 1400 rpm. At least that's what the literature says. Don't have a tachometer on anything so I'm really not positive.

Idk. I couldn't find good info online. I ordered both springs from eBay (seller = OMB Warehouse). I messaged them after getting the first set and this is what they responded:

The stock springs engage the belt at 2200 rpms

Comet 011188A Blue Garter Spring Set Of 2 - Stock 011188A | eBay

Genuine Comet 2 Garter Springs Blue. These are the standard garter springs that engage at 2200 RPMS with zinc weights. For 20/30 Series and TAV. Genuine Comet Part. Part number 011188A .

www.ebay.com

**"Genuine Comet 2 Garter Springs Blue. These are the standard garter springs that engage at 2200 RPMS with zinc weights."**
The pink springs engage the belt at 1800 rpms and are a lighter spring!

Comet Torq-A-Verter Pink Garter Spring Set Of 2 011186A 011186A | eBay

Genuine Comet Torq-A-Verter TAV pink garter spring, set of 2. Part number 011186A. Approximate 1800 RPM engagement with zinc weights.

www.ebay.com

**"Approximate 1800 RPM engagement with zinc weights"**

If you need a higher rpm engagement, consider the white springs

Comet 011190A White Garter Spring - Set Of 2 011190A | eBay

Genuine Comet 20 and 30 series Torq-A-Verter TAV white garter spring, set of 2. Part number 011190A. Approx 3100 RPM engagement with zinc weights.

www.ebay.com

Let me know if you have additional questions

Thank you!
Eric Adams

 

[joshw0000]

Can I use spray to help remove this old flywheel? I've beat it with a hammer (on the bolt with the nut partially installed) as well as the sides and it's not budging. I know the valve grinding compound is required to seat the shaft to the new flywheel, but could I spray some blaster to help get the old one off?

 

[Whitetrashrocker]

Put a prybar behind the wheel and put some pressure as you hit the crankshaft.

 

[joshw0000]

Put a prybar behind the wheel and put some pressure as you hit the crankshaft.

I tried that. And I hit it relatively hard with a heavy hammer, but it's not coming loose. I managed to knock the cam loose from the other side, lol. I think I have it back in right, and the cover is partially installed to help hold it in place. Can I hit it as hard as I can? Is there anything I can break in doing so.

 

[Whitetrashrocker]

They can be stubborn. Do you have a propane torch? Heat the flywheel to make the orifice expand. Try not to heat the crank shaft.
They make a puller just for this application but I don't thinknyounwant to wait on the mailman.
As far as damage control? Yeah you can bugger the threads on the shaft and even in worst case the flywheel can crack.
Try heat and prybar with the hammer again.
Some penetrating fluid might help too. Rust is an awesome glue.

 

[joshw0000]

They can be stubborn. Do you have a propane torch? Heat the flywheel to make the orifice expand. Try not to heat the crank shaft.
They make a puller just for this application but I don't thinknyounwant to wait on the mailman.
As far as damage control? Yeah you can bugger the threads on the shaft and even in worst case the flywheel can crack.
Try heat and prybar with the hammer again.
Some penetrating fluid might help too. Rust is an awesome glue.

Yea I have a map gas torch. I'll try heating it after work. If that doesn't work, I'll shoot a little blaster on it.

 

[panchothedog]

Sounds like you already have the process down. But just in case watch a couple of videos from Red Beards Garage. Any one where he is modifying a predator 212. He goes through the flywheel removal sequence nicely explained. A pry bar behind the flywheel, the nut threaded almost all the way on the crank ( to protect the threads, never hit the end of the crank directly ) always hit the nut. Also a soft blow with a heavy hammer ( like a 5lb sludge or a dead blow soft hammer) is much more effective than wailing away with a common claw hammer. Make sure that the engine is bolted or clamped down on the kart or your work bench. Otherwise it's just moving around every time you hit it.