backwards running frontwards spinning briggs!

Karts of Kaos

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1679504206538.png1679504234806.png so most of us have probably seen a cam drive engine before, but i found this one interesting this is a briggs 138462-0145-B1 with a 2-1 reduction built in, but on most engines with a cam drive, the cam drive spins backwards to provide a reverse gear or somthing like that, what brigs has done is they made the engine run backwards so the output shaft spins forwards to have a 2-1 reduction. i just thought it was cool and i haven't seen one like it before. what are yalls thoughts?
 

Marty 0505

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So are these available in both clockwise and counterclockwise rotations then and at the same reduction? This would be a great fit for an old twin engine I'll be doing next.
 

Karts of Kaos

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panchothedog

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Had to make sure I was sitting correctly in my chair when I first saw the picture of the crankshaft coming out of the backside of the engine. WTF. Then I read your text and realized what I was looking at. Very Kool. Twice the torque. I'm sure it would work very good in certain situations.
 

JimD

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The problem I see is it will NOT spin fast enough for a clutch or torque converter to work. If the engine goes the normal 3,600 then 2:1 means it is only spinning 1,800 at full rpm which means you can cook your dinner on the clutch drum. Just a thought before you buy out the market.
 

BaconBitRacing

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The problem I see is it will NOT spin fast enough for a clutch or torque converter to work. If the engine goes the normal 3,600 then 2:1 means it is only spinning 1,800 at full rpm which means you can cook your dinner on the clutch drum. Just a thought before you buy out the market.
Though if your stove goes out you can still have home cooked dinner.:sifone:
 

jmaack

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Trying to figure out what this would go on? Wish I could find some interior pics.
 

Willie1

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The problem I see is it will NOT spin fast enough for a clutch or torque converter to work. If the engine goes the normal 3,600 then 2:1 means it is only spinning 1,800 at full rpm which means you can cook your dinner on the clutch drum. Just a thought before you buy out the market.
I would think that clutch springs and weights could be selected to engage the clutch at lower RPMS. Same with torque converter driver/driven components - pretty sure a smart guy could make it work.
 

Willie1

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View attachment 136719View attachment 136720 so most of us have probably seen a cam drive engine before, but i found this one interesting this is a briggs 138462-0145-B1 with a 2-1 reduction built in, but on most engines with a cam drive, the cam drive spins backwards to provide a reverse gear or somthing like that, what brigs has done is they made the engine run backwards so the output shaft spins forwards to have a 2-1 reduction. i just thought it was cool and i haven't seen one like it before. what are yalls thoughts?
Biggest issue I see is that by spinning the crankshaft the opposite direction, they have moved the thrust side of the piston/cylinder to the other side of the cylinder/block. Time will tell if the block is strong enough for this change, or if it has been beefed up to accept the difference in the way it is stressed.
 

JimD

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Yes, Max-Torque can make a clutch engage at 1,000rpm and it will spin a fan blade which is very little load but you put a person on a mini-bike or a go kart there is too much weight to get it moving because not enough centrifugal force to lock the shoes against the drum thus the red hot drum. It would be in a slip mode all the time. If you are really set on doing this then look at electric clutches made by Carlyle-Johnson (Maxitorq) and then the price tag of the clutch. You will quickly conclude the engine is not worth it and get the correct one for the project. That engine is for cement/mortar mixers where you don't need a lot of rpm just a lot of torque.
 

Willie1

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Yes, I would agree it wouldn't be my first choice for a Kart or mini-bike, but I'm confident that if that is all I had to work with - I could make it work.

Not interested in getting out the pointy crayons to do all the math just to prove a point on a forum, but I do know this - if it takes "X" amount of apply force to a given clutch friction area to transmit a given load to a clutch drum - how you get that apply force can be manipulated by the weight of the clutch friction "shoes" - the centrifugal force of heavier shoes at a lower RPM can match the apply pressure of lighter ones at a higher RPM. To over-simplify - shoes 2x as heavy will apply the same force to the friction area at 1/2 the RPM. So, I don't see applying the clutch to lock up at the lower RPM as an issue. Actually, locking up the clutch at 1/2 the RPM is the easy part - the REAL issue is that - given the 2.0:1 gear reduction - it now has twice the torque to deal with. You would also have to change your final drive ratio from 6.0:1 to 3.0:1 to get the same speed - further loading the clutch harder. I guess running 2 clutches properly sized and built to lock up at the low RPM would fix that, but realistically how far do you go to fix a problem you created by using the "wrong" engine?

Since I've went this far - IF I had went this far and HAD to put the "wrong" engine on a project kart, I probably would not re-invent an RPM based drive system. I said I (see "SMART guy reference LOL) could, not would. Personally, I would use a belt driven jackshaft "clutch" setup, with a manually controlled spring-loaded idler pulley, like a rider mower. Think WOT clutch drops to get the party started.

The FINAL thoughts are - the O/P asked for thoughts on this engine and I gave them.
It would not be my first choice.
I COULD make an RPM based clutch work if necessary, with some creative engineering and a government budget.
I would probably choose an "analog" belt driven clutch setup for engineering simplicity and cost.
I, being a fat "kid", like cake . . .

Enough time spent overthinking a project that won't (shouldn't?) be built.
 
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