axle to wheel confusion

[Unit 91]

Done some searching and i can't seem to come up with a straight answer to something im trying to figure out. and my terms maybe wrong so please correct me if i am wrong.

decided i want to build a motorized drift trike. starting from scratch and trying to get a parts list together. im getting very lost when in comes to what wheels work on what axles. i have not picked a specific axle yet but i want this to be something simple and clean looking. I want to go with a solid 2wd (live?) axle. I see its gonna have to have a 1/4 inch keyway. where i get confused is what the axle ends should be like and what wheels will mount to them. i see there are rims that are made directly for live axles but i don't know if i still need a hub or not. i would prefer a rim that mounts directly to the axle and not need a hub. want an axle thats 43-45 inches.

i know to mount the live axle i need the bearing kit that has the weld on brackets. i know how to mount the sprocket and disc brake. i just seem to get confused as to what rims will fit directly to what axle. i like the idea of using the 1 inch with the 3/4 step down thats threaded. but that have the short and the long threaded end. good news is since im starting from scratch anythink you guys recommend with work for me.

 

[firemanjim]

Forget about the step down axles.... They limit you on wheels and hubs.
A wheel that is designed for a 1" live axle does not need a hub, as there is one built into that wheel. I'll post links in a second.... http://www.bmikarts.com/1-Steel-Live-Axle_p_517.html
..........+++++++++http://www.bmikarts.com/Rims-Wheels_c_288-1-1.html
The 3 wheels on the top row fit the axle I linked to, which you can buy in a 45" length.....

 

[Unit 91]

Thanks for the swift reply. Looks like I need to keep the total tire and wheel outside diameter to 10 inches. Any recommendations to what size rim and what size tire?

 

[firemanjim]

What type tire? Knobby or slick?

 

[Unit 91]

Doesn't matter. They are getting pvc around them

 

[firemanjim]

Doesn't matter. They are getting pvc around them

O yeah..... http://www.bmikarts.com/Tires_c_280-1-1.html
I think those will work for you. I don't buy from BMI, too high on shipping..... I just use them for reference. I buy from ebay and other kart supply houses and industrial shops.... Depends on what I'm looking for. Try looking at www.surpluscenter.com for tire and wheel combos or just tires. They have a lot of stuff you can use when building a kart.....

 

[firemanjim]

One other thing.... If the tire is meant for a 4 " wide wheel, and is 12" tall, it will be shorter if you put it on a 5" wide wheel.......

 

[Unit 91]

How do those rims mount to the axle?

 

[firemanjim]

Uhh, yeah, you're a noob..... LoL
They slide on, with a key inside, and you just put a nut on the end.....
You make a long spacer out of tubing, to locate the wheel/tire where you want it to stay, then add the wheel, then a washer, then a nut..... It's simple..... I think you are thinking TOO hard about this and your confusing yourself..... I've been there..... I will over look the obvious, cause it just can't be that simple...... LoL but it is.....

 

[Unit 91]

I think my problem is I need to have the parts in front of me or a picture of them installed to fully understand.... If I use a long space to center them then what holds the spacer in place. I think I need to draw up what I am thinking so you can maybe understand where I am going wrong

 

[Unit 91]

I guess this is what I'm trying to build/ understand.
I can figure out that the sprocket and disc rotor are in place from the set screw. And that the bearings the axle rides on has set screws to keep the axle from sliding left or right. But finding a rim that mounts directly to the axle is screwing me up. I think because there are so many different axle choices there are so many rim choices, and all the inner diameter outer diameter numbers are thrown around. Some rims come with bearings which I assume are for the front free spinning rims. I'm just lost!!!

 

[Badot]

On my drift trike I just used 3/4" bore plastic wheels from McMaster Carr, plunged a 1/4" mill into the ID of them to make a round keyway, ground a flat onto the axle, and used shaft collars on either side. 1/4" rod between the wheel and the axle kept them keyed.

It would eat up a pair of wheels every 25 miles or so, but they were only about $5 a pair and could be swapped in about 2 minutes with an allen key. I believe gearing was 45mph/3600 RPM with a centrifugal clutch and a Harbor Freight 196cc had plenty of power to spin the wheels at anything below 30.

 

[firemanjim]

I position the wheel where I want it to be. Then I measure the distance between the wheel and bearing. Then I cut a piece of tubing (that slides over the axle) to that measurement. Then slide on the tube, the wheel, and then the retaining nut..... I cut pieces to fill in all the gaps..... Between the wheel and bearings. Between bearing and sprocket. Between sprocket and brake disc. Between disc and bearing. Between bearings and wheel. (that is the whole axle...left to right..... )Doing this, leaves no room for anything to move, once the axle nuts are installed......

 

[Unit 91]

I position the wheel where I want it to be. Then I measure the distance between the wheel and bearing. Then I cut a piece of tubing (that slides over the axle) to that measurement. Then slide on the tube, the wheel, and then the retaining nut..... I cut pieces to fill in all the gaps..... Between the wheel and bearings. Between bearing and sprocket. Between sprocket and brake disc. Between disc and bearing. Between bearings and wheel. (that is the whole axle...left to right..... )Doing this, leaves no room for anything to move, once the axle nuts are installed......

I see what you mean now. kinda seems like overkill but then again i guess when your doing 20 mph and everything is lined up and held in place by some set screws i could see why you would want the tubing to keep everything in place between the axle nuts. would suck to be drifting around a corner and axle shifts left or right.

good news is my dad owns a machine shop and talked with him this morning and he is gonna make me a custom 1 inch axle. with your help i was able to understand what i was looking at and misunderstanding. your right i was overthinking it. also the fact that i was looking at a stepped axle lead to more confusing options. by pointing me to the solid 1 inch without the step everything else clicked in my head and now its on to the building and material gathering. now let me cross my fingers for a 20% harbor freights coupon soon.....

 

[firemanjim]

20mph!!!!
More like 40mph...... Or more,depending on which kart..... The tubing leaves no room for anything to move. Over kill? Maybe, but I'd rather be safe than sorry...... LoL
I've been a machinist for over 20 years. Do your dad a favor and buy that axle. It's cheaper, and easier, than making one..... Trust me...... Been there done that...... I will gladly buy one before trying to make one again..... I'd make larger ones, but not a 1"..... I think that link shows them starting at $20 for 32-36" axles and a couple more $$ for the 45 " axle. By the way, why do you want such a wide axle? I don't use more than a 40" because wheel hubs add to the overall length.... Why so wide?

 

[Unit 91]

I was thinking that wide due to center of gravity and only three wheels. Wider stance in rear make less likely to be drifting and out side wheel hit a bump and kart cartwheel over. My dad said that axle would take him less then 30 minutes to make and he has the material laying around.

 

[Unit 91]

because wheel hubs add to the overall length

which is why i wanted a rim to mount directly to axle to avoid extra length, cost and further confusion on my part.

 

[firemanjim]

Ok, but just so you know, there is such a thing as too wide.... The farther the axle extends from the bearing, the force it takes to bend it decreases..... Meaning the farther out it is, the easier it is to bend......
Just food for thought.....

 

[Unit 91]

Ok, but just so you know, there is such a thing as too wide.... The farther the axle extends from the bearing, the force it takes to bend it decreases..... Meaning the farther out it is, the easier it is to bend......
Just food for thought.....

I intend on having the bearings as close to the wheels as possible plus i my add one in the center as well due to overall width of axle to to prevent flexing in the center or outsides.

 

[firemanjim]

I intend on having the bearings as close to the wheels as possible plus i my add one in the center as well due to overall width of axle to to prevent flexing in the center or outsides.

Just checking...