advice on used motor

[dcastillo]

So currently i have my treadmill motor pushing my cart at about 12mph (estimating about 800W) but the plan is to upgrade to something more powerful down the road, looking to do about 20mph or so, more interested in the acceleration though, so Ive been keeping my eye out especially on craigslist...
today I came across this
http://tampa.craigslist.org/psc/bar/4067993732.html

I did some research and it looks like from the model of the motor it is pretty old but (if working) plenty powerful enough. The seller says hes never turned it on, he got it with a golfcart he bought just for the frame. And he said he'd give it to me for $20...
from what Ive read on series motors, I can just connect Bat+ to S1, then S2 to A1 and A2 to Bat- (using 12V) to see if it turns...
(correct me if thats wrong )

if it does turn, do you think its a good buy? Or would you say its to old to waste my money on?

thanx for the advice
Danny

 

[itsid]

So currently i have my treadmill motor pushing my cart at about 12mph (estimating about 800W) but the plan is to upgrade to something more powerful down the road, looking to do about 20mph or so, more interested in the acceleration though, so Ive been keeping my eye out especially on craigslist...
today I came across this
http://tampa.craigslist.org/psc/bar/4067993732.html

I did some research and it looks like from the model of the motor it is pretty old but (if working) plenty powerful enough. The seller says hes never turned it on, he got it with a golfcart he bought just for the frame. And he said he'd give it to me for $20...

Taht is cheap, you may want to have some other electric goodies to from that golf car, for an easy set up, the pedal throttle if available, controllers and such (just in case )

from what Ive read on series motors, I can just connect Bat+ to S1, then S2 to A1 and A2 to Bat- (using 12V) to see if it turns...
(correct me if thats wrong )

if it does turn, do you think its a good buy? Or would you say its to old to waste my money on?

thanx for the advice
Danny

That's what I know; +->S1, S2->A1, A2->- just make sure you have some good wire to connect especially S2-A1.

$20 is a good price if that motor's still turning.
I'd assume it'd be around 3-4kW as most of the golf cars out there, right?

I'd say go for it

'sid

 

[dcastillo]

So I went to check out the motors it it turns out two of the lug/bolt connections were broken off. The guy felt bad I had made the drive and gave it to me for free

I managed to hack some wires to it and presto, 12V and it jumped on the floor

So now I need some advice, I have what appears to be a good motor with broken bolts and its very dirty

first off, what to do about the bolts?
idea 1-are they standard bolts that I could weld a smaller size bolt (1/4-20) to or are they of a special alloy that cant be easily welded?
2- drill and tap into the bolt with a smaller bolt (probably a 10/32), would the smaller bolt be able to handle the high current?
3-see how much a golfcart place would charge to fix the two bolts? (although this option cost money )

My second question is, how do I clean this thing? if its all wiring, couldnt i spray it with an engine degreaser and hose it down, then air dry it for a few days?

and my concern.... this thing is HUGE!!!!! and extremely heavy!!!!! do people actually put these in their carts? its gotta weigh 50-60lbs easy... Im gonna have a hard time figuring out how to mount the beast...


thanx again for any help
Danny

 

[mckutzy]

I used to work in rebuilding these and other types of electric of motors. So I'll give you a few pointers. If you have any questions, ask or PM me..

First... Get some cardboard under that motor before it might get damaged.
EDIT- It occurred to me as I wrote most of this, The shaft has a spline on the end. Big question is.... do you have something that it will mate with??? if not it might be a waste of time.... (if you do, ignore this question)
secondly... IF you are going to use this motor. you will need to clean it before using it now that it has been opened.

I hope you have noted the exact position as the two halves were before you seperated the motor. It is kinda important for reassembly.
Hopefully by this point you havent totally disassembled the whole motor, Note if there is a wavy washer that was next to the bearing ion the housing when you pulled out the armature. If so write with a perm marker Drive end or DE, it needs to be in the side it was in(or it is in the Brush end, either way, mark it and dont forget to put it back in when reassembling).


As a DIY guy, DO NOT WASH WITH WATER. You wont get it dry enough at home. Need a kinda special oven to dry it after.
You can get some electrical contact cleaner, that will help with any grease or grime. Be really careful not to get that stuff in your eyes. You for the most part can/will be blind...
But..
Since you have opened the motor. You will need to us an air compressor to blow out as much of the brush dust as you can. Be gentle to all windings if there is a scratch it will be a big problem for you to correct.
Blowing all the dust can generate a huge cloud of black dust. Be mindful of where you are doing this( like not indoors, in a windy area ect) it is not nice to breathe in.

Do Not stick tools or metal objects in the housings to help clean. If you must, use a WOODEN stick or the like. Also there is going to be a compound stuck on the armature like hard gum. That is used to balance the armature, DO NOT REMOVE IT. Shown in the first pic 3 o'clock.
Just blow off all loose dust and dirt.

Do NOT loosen the pole plates holding the coils onto the housings. they need to be in an exact spot for holding the pole and so no armature contact occurs.

The coil terminal, (if you could post a few more pics of the lug end) looks like the end bolt snapped off (probably why it was for sale in the first place) by someone tightening the bolt to hard.
You can attach a new bolt to the lug by un-soldering(it most likely will be brazed on) and re-brazing on a new lug with a bolt. If the bolt is broken the plastic bushing in the hole it was in might be also damaged(and if it is, you will need a new one), But that is just a quick description. if you aren't Knowledgeable in brazing, this is going to be a problem.

Im thinking you will need to bring this to a professional guy to re braze on a new lug with bolt.

 

[dcastillo]

thanx for the great response

First... Get some cardboard under that motor before it might get damaged.

How would it get damaged lying on the floor? not sure I am following..

EDIT- It occurred to me as I wrote most of this, The shaft has a spline on the end. Big question is.... do you have something that it will mate with??? if not it might be a waste of time.... (if you do, ignore this question)

I figured theres got to be some way to mount a sprocket to it right? worst case I sand it down to a smooth axle and drill a hole for a set screw?

Hopefully by this point you havent totally disassembled the whole motor, Note if there is a wavy washer that was next to the bearing ion the housing when you pulled out the armature. If so write with a perm marker Drive end or DE, it needs to be in the side it was in(or it is in the Brush end, either way, mark it and dont forget to put it back in when reassembling).

Only dis-assembly Ive done is what you see, and didnt notice a washer, but ill keep my eye out

As a DIY guy, DO NOT WASH WITH WATER. You wont get it dry enough at home. Need a kinda special oven to dry it after.
You can get some electrical contact cleaner, that will help with any grease or grime.

hopefully waters not to bad cause it had some in it already from being left outside. Im not sure how well the compressed air will work since it is wet inside already, thats why I figured I would go ahead and spray some cleaner and and wash it, but if you think its that bad of an idea, then I will resist.

The coil terminal, (if you could post a few more pics of the lug end) looks like the end bolt snapped off (probably why it was for sale in the first place) by someone tightening the bolt to hard.
You can attach a new bolt to the lug by un-soldering(it most likely will be brazed on) and re-brazing on a new lug with a bolt. If the bolt is broken the plastic bushing in the hole it was in might be also damaged(and if it is, you will need a new one), But that is just a quick description. if you aren't Knowledgeable in brazing, this is going to be a problem.

Im thinking you will need to bring this to a professional guy to re braze on a new lug with bolt.

The guy had bought the cart to strip it down and turn it into a trailer for his other cart, he didnt know the condition of the electrical portion, hence why he felt bad and gave it to me for free.
I have some connections in the AC industry who can braze, I just need to know if the bolt is made of anything special? or can I just get a bolt from the hardware store? as for the bushings, I can get new ones from a golfcart parts place if needed, but I think the one on there actually still might work if I use a large nonconductive washer on the outside (the inner busing/sleeve is still intact.)

thanx again for all your help
Danny

 

[mckutzy]

Like I said, I used to work with these motors, so I guess a few things are rubbing off on me.
I had said things like that about how is it going to get damaged. It is a case of trying to be preventive to a situation. the motor is exposed so why not prevent a potential situation that might occur from just bumping it or itself falling over. just saying.

The bolt looks like it might be copper or brass. If it is then a copper or brass bolt will do. try to get the same size thread as the other bolt on the other terminals.
A steel terminal will do in a pinch, but it will cause problems later so a non ferrous is the best bet.
The bushing is a plastic tube with a top hat shape with a bore for the terminal bolt. simple to machine out of some uhmw plastic.

If you dont have a lathe(Im assuming you dont) you will need to take it to a guy to machine it down. You dont list the speed for the motor, But typically speaking with the torque aplied it potentially will twist off the turned down end.

As far as the water, some electrical contact cleaner should help wick up most of the water. I if was just wet from being outside, but not directly under the water(which it looks like it wasnt) The motor should be fine, after using the air and electric cleaner.

With that being said....

If it were me Id sell the motor. You could find something better Im sure. The shaft is the main part needed to function and the fix there is a potentially for it to break. In the end, It isnt the way you need it, so Id reassemble it and sell it.

 

[dcastillo]

I guess for fun I could just weld a sprocket on

didnt really think it would sell for much, but I guess I could try...
I was originally wanting to get a 1000W 36V MY1020 motor which is a lot smaller and easier to deal with on my cart, just not as powerful...
-Danny

 

[mckutzy]

The motor when cleaned up and repaired with a new terminal. I reckon you could almost get at least $100 maybe $200 If it was cleaned of all grime and dust inside and out.
Hey you got it for free, even if buddy charges you about $20 bucks(it shouldn't be more than that) for the terminal lug your still golden.

 

[itsid]

You can totally pressure wash the motor case (not the coils please!)
after that, put it in your oven and set it at 100°C (~212°F do NOT preheat) let it bake for about 20min; it'll be dry like never before.

Let it cool of course before you get it out to prevent thermal cracks.
Best: don't even open the lid.

'sid

 

[mckutzy]

Well there is that, the hombrew bake oven. But there is plastics and other stuff that will for the most part effect you oven(for when you decide to cook something later) and make your food taste wierd and or poisonous.
20 min isnt going to heat the metal, too much mass of steel and copper.

At our shop(when I worked there) that is basically what we did. Had a industrial parts washer machine, washed for a specific time, then hose wash off with clean water, then baked for 4-8 hours, then cooled for about 30min with a blower fan.

It meg'ed out pretty good, usually better than when it came in.

 

[itsid]

20 min isnt going to heat the metal, too much mass of steel and copper.

That's exactly why I chose that short amount of time
counting the minute the oven reaches that temperature with the motor housing in btw (I think I didn't made that clear earlier).
There is no need to heat all the metal to a temperature as high as 100°C but I think it'll get too hot to touch within that time for sure.
100°C is a temperature btw that the plastics should withstand for a short period of time without poisonous fumes evaporating.
And the grease should have been washed away in the prior process, right

Anyways, the convecting air should get hot enough to pickup the remaining water from the housing within that time.
And that's all that matters to have a perfectly dry motor in the end.

I'd NEVER pressure wash the coils or put them in an oven of course, that's just making things worse;
the housing? I see no reason why not.

'sid

 

[mckutzy]

In order to get the coils out, he would have to remove the pole plates. the pole plates are specific to the position it is in, also there is a specific torque rating aswell as the air gap setting. it isnt easy as it sounds. Im just abbreviating.

For the most part, he can clean everything else without having to removing any thing from the case, using the air and by hand. thats all that basically needs to be done.