Adding new motor to my Christmas list

[panchothedog]

Yes, that's too upright. It needs to lean a lot more.

 

[Edwin Spangler]

I bent the kickstand and it now stands on its own. Thoughts? Leave it as-is or bent a little more? I feel like it might need a little more.

Did you try to adjust it first? The nut and bolt holding the kickstand on, thats not supposed to be tight. Its supposed to be loose with a spring holding tension, allowing the kickstand to pivot slightly.

I can get a picture of the entire mechanism later so you can compare.

 

[Sparkwizard]

Since you have some welding to do anyway, you might think about using a cutoff wheel to groove the weld holding the bracket on, adjust it and weld it where you want it. I have cut them off and moved them toward the rear because they caught on the roots in the woods when they are so far forward.

 

[joshw0000]

Did you try to adjust it first? The nut and bolt holding the kickstand on, thats not supposed to be tight. Its supposed to be loose with a spring holding tension, allowing the kickstand to pivot slightly.

I can get a picture of the entire mechanism later so you can compare.

I don't see anyway to adjust how far out it extends. I removed the spring and bolt to heat / bend it. Even with the bolt fairly loose, there's not enough play for it extend outward very much. Maybe I'm missing something?

Since you have some welding to do anyway, you might think about using a cutoff wheel to groove the weld holding the bracket on, adjust it and weld it where you want it. I have cut them off and moved them toward the rear because they caught on the roots in the woods when they are so far forward.

That's a good idea but my woods go straight downhill to a swamp. And it's completely overgrown, so I won't be doing any trail riding. Just around the yard or maybe down to the road to a buddies house. My dogs enjoy chasing me (or leading me) and it's good exercise for them so that's usually what I use my bikes for.

 

[Hellion]

I can get a picture of the entire mechanism later so you can compare.

 

[Hellion]

And it's completely overgrown, so I won't be doing any trail riding.

You won’t be the last person that undertakes some land improvement for the simple heck of it. Got a chainsaw and a few machetes? Make your own trails but it may not happen overnight

 

[Edwin Spangler]

So I cant tell if your kickstand also has the inside tab but that shouldnt matter.

You see how the outside tab on the kickstand is curved. You need a nut and bolt long enough to allow for the pivot.

I assume you have the same kickstand so maybe those tabs got closed up somehow. Maybe theyre clamping onto the mount.

Actually, I wonder if someone over tightened that and clamed those tabs together.

Hope something here helps.

EDIT: If you switch back and forth between two pictures, youll see the pivot action that is supposed to be there.

 

[Hellion]

Judging by how it shot out of the engine I'm SUPER lucky. It must've hit the bottom of the fuel tank. And the fuel tank was full (I had just topped it off before the final ride because I thought the issue was it being out of fuel). Had it pierced the fuel tank I probably wouldn't be posting this right now.

I wondered what the underside of the fuel tank looked like. You said it wasn’t punctured so I guess we don't need to see it.

Technically speaking, you were at reduced risk (I think?) because high speed failure of a thing that’s rotating on an eccentric (con rod and crank) is safer than a flywheel failure. Flywheels have injured many and killed a few but they were spinning vastly over the original design limits (close to 10K). Anyway, something spinning fast that's made of heavy iron/cast steel and decides to frag on you, well count me out.

When the con-rod seizes on the crank, it snaps in half or several pieces but the crankshaft keeps going, a courtesy of that heavy flywheel. The remains of the connecting rod, no longer contained in its up/down path in the cylinder, can now lean over on the crank and punch a hole in the side of the block. It’s either that or pieces of the con rod and governor get trapped between the crank and the block and there’s nowhere to go but out. It's minor in comparison to the flywheel.

Photos of the oil to check for that lovely metallic sheen would have been nice, if there was any. It tends to settle so there might be some metallic sludge on the bottom of the block. And even then, a little bit is normal when it's in the break-in oil.

Sorry, this thread is like a good movie -- you want to watch it 10x...

 

[joshw0000]

So I cant tell if your kickstand also has the inside tab but that shouldnt matter.

You see how the outside tab on the kickstand is curved. You need a nut and bolt long enough to allow for the pivot.

I assume you have the same kickstand so maybe those tabs got closed up somehow. Maybe theyre clamping onto the mount.

Actually, I wonder if someone over tightened that and clamed those tabs together.

Hope something here helps.

EDIT: If you switch back and forth between two pictures, youll see the pivot action that is supposed to be there.

Thanks for the pics. My kickstand mount does have some wiggle room similar to what you're showing, but it's not nearly enough for a proper lean. My bolt isn't all the way in, nor do I have the spring installed until I finish welding / painting. I think I see the issue. Your mounting tab leans outwards whereas mine is more vertical. The next chance I get I'm going to remove the kickstand and see if I can bend that tab out a bit. That'll be easier than heating and banging on the kickstand. I'll have nice scar on my arm from a momentary lapse of common sense (recently glowing red metal may still be hot).

I wondered what the underside of the fuel tank looked like. You said it wasn’t punctured so I guess we don't need to see it.

Technically speaking, you were at reduced risk (I think?) because high speed failure of a thing that’s rotating on an eccentric (con rod and crank) is safer than a flywheel failure. Flywheels have injured many and killed a few but they were spinning vastly over the original design limits (close to 10K). Anyway, something spinning fast that's made of heavy iron/cast steel and decides to frag on you, well count me out.

When the con-rod seizes on the crank, it snaps in half or several pieces but the crankshaft keeps going, a courtesy of that heavy flywheel. The remains of the connecting rod, no longer contained in its up/down path in the cylinder, can now lean over on the crank and punch a hole in the side of the block. It’s either that or pieces of the con rod and governor get trapped between the crank and the block and there’s nowhere to go but out. It's minor in comparison to the flywheel.

Photos of the oil to check for that lovely metallic sheen would have been nice, if there was any. It tends to settle so there might be some metallic sludge on the bottom of the block. And even then, a little bit is normal when it's in the break-in oil.

Sorry, this thread is like a good movie -- you want to watch it 10x...

If you look closely in the middle rectangular cut out, it looks like it was nicked. Otherwise, it doesn't appear damaged at all.



I've already dumped what little bit of oil was left in my 5 gallon recycle bucket with some fluids from my car. It honestly didn't look that bad aside from being very black and thick. I'm guessing the guy wasn't fond of doing oil changes. I found a little more of the governor (spring) before I put it away. I don't why I keep things like this.

Also, I'm pretty sure it's a hemi judging by the valve cover and vales.

 

[joshw0000]

I worked on the new motor a bit yesterday and fixed the recoil issue. I have a bruise on my chest from pulling it, and it snapping back. Well, apparently I had the valves lashed horribly wrong. I think I had my TDC wrong when I lashed it. This time I held my thumb over the spark plug hole until I felt it push against me, then I looked for TDC and checked my lash. I quit gauging when 007 slipped in easily.

So, now with the lash at 003 for both sides, it's pretty easy to pull. It crank and ran for a couple minutes as I tried to adjust the carb (I believe it's a VM22 clone, it was on the bike when I got it so I moved it over to this motor). I installed a 105 jet in it while it was on the old motor. I did a few test pulls and it would bog out at higher RPM's. I made some adjustments to both fuel and air, but I'm sure they were wrong. The carb eventually filled with fuel, started draining out the overflow, and the motor would no longer crank. I needed to get ready for small group so I left it as-is. Once I dump the carb bowl, I may put a smaller jet in it.

I've never really messed with the slide style carbs but from what I understand the bottom screw controls fuel (right = lean, left = rich) and the top screw controls air (right opens, left closes). What I don't know is if I run that top screw all the way left, will it not come out? I.e. What is my starting point (closed) that I should set my base adjustments from?

 

[joshw0000]

I need some carb advice before I lose my mind. The carb I was using originally measured 26mm and I had installed a 115 jet. Idk what's wrong with it but I've taken it apart several times and no matter what I do it floods and leaks gas. So that one is done.

I get a lot of (almost) free stuff off Amazon vine so I have 3 new carbs. Naturally, I grabbed the biggest one, PZ27 and installed it. It came with a 38 pilot and 98 main jet. I tried my best to adjust it, but it would never idle no matter what I did. Plus the choke is spring loaded so I'd have to hold it or rig a way to keep it on until I was done cranking it. I tried changing the main jet with another but it's a one piece design with fine threads. All of the ones I have are coarse thread I couldn't find any online that looked like fine thread so, Idk what's up with it. I pulled it back off.





So, now I'm trying the next largest, a PZ22 26mm. This one is pretty simple. The choke is on/off (not spring loaded), and it only has a single adjustment screw on the side (so I don't have to try to get underneath it to make adjustments). It came with unknown sizing on the pilot and main jets, but also a lot of sizes, going all the way up to 125 for the main.



So I left the unknown pilot and installed a 115 main jet. I can get it to idle but it bogs out when I give it fuel. But here's the kicker. The exhaust is a flame thrower. I could roast marshmallows on it. I noticed the exhaust turning red so I killed it, and here I am now. Note - all 3 carbs would occasionally throw some flames but this last one was a steady flame.

I'm guessing my main jet is too big? What would you run on this 26mm carb? Do you think something else is the issue? I made no timing adjustments and my valves are set at 003. It now pulls pretty easily.



Oh yea, this little guy popped up on Marketplace for $250 this morning and the guy was right down the road. He said he just installed this brand new hemi 212 a few weeks ago and it's fast. He's not lying. It has a huge rear sprocket so it wants to stand up or spin tires. It's a tiny frame so I definitely can't keep it. I won't talk to much on this one right now, but my goal is to remove / build the motor and put it on my green bike, fix a few issues with this one (new brakes, spin the front forks around - I'm pretty sure they're backwards, remove that pipe he installed and put on some foot pegs), put the motor from the green bike on it, and sell this one for hopefully break even.



Stepping away from carb work until I get some feedback. I'm on the fence about just installing a factory carb and being done with it.

 

[joshw0000]

I took out some frustration on the kickstand bracket. I like how this sits. Note - it's not the correct bolt. I didn't feel like threading it just to take it back off.

 

[joshw0000]

Fixed the crack, added a bunch of material on both sides for strength, and filled in the big dent I made on the kickstand.

 

[Hellion]

I'm on the fence about just installing a factory carb and being done with it.

I’ve heard both schools of thought on here (as well as the interwebs at large) as to which is better: the factory carb or factory-style carb and the “motorcycle carbs”. Have heard pros and cons of each and am now thoroughly confuzzled.

The new bike has those newfangled high speed forks. That’s how you know it was fast. Fella had to hit something to help him stop (probably had a bit of brake fade).

 

[Edwin Spangler]

I’ve heard both schools of thought on here (as well as the interwebs at large) as to which is better: the factory carb or factory-style carb and the “motorcycle carbs”. Have heard pros and cons of each and am now thoroughly confuzzled.

The new bike has those newfangled high speed forks. That’s how you know it was fast. Fella had to hit something to help him stop (probably had a bit of brake fade).

Ive heard the pros and cons also but they dont match my experiences. Ive tried Nibbis, Mikunis, Chikunis, stocks, modified stock, full on generic ones with a clear plastic bowl lol... All on a 196, 212, and 420s to compare fairly.

This is just my experience... Forget the generic ones I mentioned, they suck! Within a week that cool clear bowl was oxidized, cracked, and leaking. Couldnt tune the thing to save your life. Seemingly perfect mixture one day would blow black or white clouds the next?

All stock carbs, even the modified ones Ive used are slower to respond and make the engine feel less powerful than the others. Mikunis and the clones perform the same, but obviously better than stock. Much more responsive, feels more powerful, sounds better.

The Nibbi carbs are my favorite. It just feels like a quality piece that you can trust to do the thing you want it to do. Alone they seem to give a good boost in power, maybe its just THAT much more responsive that it translates to FEELING more powerful. Theyre incredibly snappy, have amazing midrange modulation capability, make the engine sound much better. -And best of all, they look good.

 

[Hellion]

It's a tiny frame so I definitely can't keep it. I won't talk to much on this one right now

I like ‘em small, they’re MINIbikes and some (with the folding handlebars) were able to fit into the cavernous trunks of yore (your poppa’s Buick land yacht). I’m 75” tall and don’t mind the smaller ones, they’re fun.

You can always start another thread for the other bike. This thread has already morphed beyond the original blown up motor topic. If it covers too many topics at once, it may collapse from its own weight…

 

[joshw0000]

I like ‘em small, they’re MINIbikes and some (with the folding handlebars) were able to fit into the cavernous trunks of yore (your poppa’s Buick land yacht). I’m 75” tall and don’t mind the smaller ones, they’re fun.

You can always start another thread for the other bike. This thread has already morphed beyond the original blown up motor topic. If it covers too many topics at once, it may collapse from its own weight…

I'm not keeping the little one . The wife is already fussing because I have 3 now.

The first one I had was a 100 like this and 75% of my household wrecked it (including me). Speed + not being able to turn well due to a short wheel base, and wanting to ride wheelies unless you're leaned over the handlebars (also a short wheelbase issue) doesn't work for me.