800cc vtwin in cart using Engineering degree from Moosehead University

[Gottaknowjoe]

Hey, friends, the long version with more info is below. I'm questioning how to properly tension the chain and belt to jack shaft using 530 chain and what product to use.

I've been working on this project that is working on me.... The all aluminum Dumping bed Club Car. It WAS power by an fe350 kawasaki engine that I rebuilt, but disappointed in the power and sound. ...sound mostly I decided the 350 would better power a desk fan..
A buddy gifted me a low mile vn800 Vulcan that was torn apart.. an abandoned bobber project. The wiring was a task and made me 2nd guess my friends intentions giving this bike up so fast..but I overcame and she runs like a beast.
My Question, no.. QUESTIONS LIST adds 2 line items every time I'm able to one off....
The org clubcar engine was bolted to a steel pan. The pan was bolted to the transaxle the engine to the pan. Photos added. . The transaxle engine and pan have this give, for obvious reasons. So I incorporated the bikes mount Design and carts design to keep it as close to the org setup as possible.
I'm installing 56 hp over the 11hp that was burdened to push the cart. Removing the dump bed cut a 3rd of the weigh...but now im dealing with a hurdle. Transferring counter clockwise power fron the 800 power plant to a clockwise cart transaxle. I guess I forgot to mention I started this journey with one of the only clockwise output engines on the market. And the transaxle stays, I'm not losing reverse. It's not productive to tell the wife SHE IS THE REVERSE GEAR.

I'm not a heavy footed guy (Bull-beeep!) My plan is to use responsibility, I'm really after that nice vtwin sound with the reliability of the Japanese engine, not top speeds, or a BUSA would be going in.

The bike and cart both had soild mounts in rear and dampening device(s)/motor mounts in the front. I kept this the same, the Engine to transaxle is still like factory, design....the rotation torque on transaxle and the engine moves with it as one. . I thought about using a coilover shock as a front mount but desided to just use a normal car single stud frame mounted engine mount.
Now to the Jackshaft. My chain will not be long the belt will be about the same. I can not slide the engine to adjust tension since the transaxle and engine are one solid unit i cant adjust shaft since the chain is on one end and belt the other... there is no way i could tensionwith shaft and keep it all squared.
Can you adjust chain with a tensioner if so where can I find one . The 2 shouldn't be affected much by the suspension where I plan to mount it . Thank you for any help or ideas to pull me out of this mud I seem to be stuck in.
Writing about any project or subject sparks ideas for me......so it's one reason for the above-mentioned ramblings sorry to bore you with them.
. Cheers Joe...
I can't leave fixed alone Because it's just boring.


Plan is to place Jack shaft on cross bar that's parallel and behind the axle

 

[Hellion]

I wish I could see the chain and belt in situ before I make a determination.

But the simple answer is a chain tensioner. Spring loaded arm with a pulley on the end.

 

[Denny]

You’re going to have to make everything. You’re overlooking the few turds in the punch bowl though. The belt and clutches are only designed to handle about 16hp for starters. Secondly how are you going to correct the rotation problem you pointed out? And third I highly doubt the transaxle is going to take the torque you’re going to be putting out. Good Luck, but you’re going to have to design and build what you need.

 

[Hellion]

Secondly how are you going to correct the rotation problem you pointed out?

Good catch. That's not just a little secondary problem, that's the primary problem if the engine is rotating the wrong way for proper power application. I must have missed it because he didn't put it in bold or all caps.

Care must be taken to reduce a post to just the bare, pertinent facts only and avoiding if possible the well-known Wall-of-Text quandary.

Was the engine originally from a whacky shaft-driven bike? I think you need to ditch this engine for something more practical... and dare I say it, one from the Predator engine family, maybe the exalted V-twin?

 

[Drunkngojira]

Could you not flip the transaxle around?

 

[Rat]

Could you not flip the transaxle around?

I was thinking the same exact thing.
The issue then becomes needing an additional jackshaft to cross over from the engine (left hand output) to the flipped axle (as it would go from being left hand input to right handed).

I'm fairly certain the engine would need to be moved forward to clear for that.

ANOTHER option would be to fabricate a gear to replace the countershaft gear and make a mesh gear setup to directly reverse the rotation.
That of course that would still entail some form of jackshaft to hold the mesh gear in place as well as being the alignment and transfer point for power.

Instead of running a belt, I'd swap the transaxle pulley for a sprocket and just run a chain because they don't slip and you can modify the length on an as needed basis unlike a belt

As @Hellion mentioned the only logical option for tension is a spring loaded idler... doesn't matter if you run belt or chain, it's just the only option the configuration allows.

[edit:] It occurred to me there is a 3rd option to correct the drive direction. It's way old school, and a bit unorthodox but I'm one to think beyond the box of standard options.

Assuming a traditional symmetrical V belt is used for the final drive (the engine has what a 5 speed? 6speed? Transmission)

Just twist the belt into a figure 8, which would be a simplified version of retro-direct drive.

This could require a slightly longer belt to pull off, but would definitely at least one sprung idler to keep the belt tight and from rubbing against itself at the intersecting point, but it definitely works. It may even be more ideal to use a parallel idler, one to accommodate the flat top of the belt and the other a V pulley to cradle from below... with independent idler on a shared spindle the belt will be isolated from being in contact with itself as well as offer a degree of misalignment while still being properly aligned l.
It can be done with chains as well.

 

[Gottaknowjoe]

You’re going to have to make everything. You’re overlooking the few turds in the punch bowl though. The belt and clutches are only designed to handle about 16hp for starters. Secondly how are you going to correct the rotation problem you pointed out? And third I highly doubt the transaxle is going to take the torque you’re going to be putting out. Good Luck, but you’re going to have to design and build what you need.

I highly doubt the transaxle is going to take the torque you’re going to be putting out. Good Luck, but you’re going to have to design and build what you need.
It's a tough Transaxle. plus we peeled a few hundred pounds cutting off the dump bed. However I still have the same concern, I do not "PLAN" to treat this like a drunk teenager its more for the brute sound and reliability of the Japanese engine, ANd to see if I could pull it off. lol Ill mentally design something like the engine mounts in my head 50 ways then jot the top 5 down on paper which all changes when the part is in my hand and its time to weld,. SO I'm my worst enemy when Time is concerned.
The belt and clutches are only designed to handle about 16hp for starters.
I want to replace the pully with the same size in diameter, Finding pulleys and sprockets to fit my application has been a (*&^%% and I am still looking.. the 530 chain the bike came with is overkill for my needs. This will be the 1st Building of a jackshaft in my shop as well so I'm just not familiar with how the stuff is marketed and sold. I'm still not 100% clear on the exact location the shaft will live at this point..
Secondly, how are you going to correct the rotation problem you pointed out?
As you know looking at the output shaft/gear on the engine defines the engine direction it is referred to, The output shaft on the Clubcars Org engine is on the passenger side of the cart., and turns clockwise to roll the driven pulley forward. The Kawwawaaski and all the bikes I ride have the output on the portside/drivers or left side and turn in the same direction as a time machine clock (counterclockwise) This is the only reason for the jackshaft. But trust me every time someone questions or asks about this I panic inside a little thinking I missed something or have it turned around. lol

 

[Gottaknowjoe]

I wish I could see the chain and belt in situ before I make a determination.

But the simple answer is a chain tensioner. Spring loaded arm with a pulley on the end.

Me as well I'm going to order a shaft and bearings so I can decide on the layout and where it will all live.

 

[Gottaknowjoe]

Good catch. That's not just a little secondary problem, that's the primary problem if the engine is rotating the wrong way for proper power application. I must have missed it because he didn't put it in bold or all caps.

Care must be taken to reduce a post to just the bare, pertinent facts only and avoiding if possible the well-known Wall-of-Text quandary.

Was the engine originally from a whacky shaft-driven bike? I think you need to ditch this engine for something more practical... and dare I say it, one from the Predator engine family, maybe the exalted V-twin?

Oh lord no! It would all be in vain, Anyone can buy a kit and stick a lawnmower engine in the thing. No fun in that. Absolute worst case... I pull the transaxle and run a direct shaft. I have a brand new built fe 350 I just pulled to leave the lawn tractor sound where it belongs... on the lawn tractor. lol.
Look just because the cart will have 6 times the HP does not mean the owner (ME) will try to smoke the tires at every or any chance.. The front end as beefy as it is can not take the speed.... I'm not building a speed machine, It's more of a CAN I DO THIS type of project.

 

[Gottaknowjoe]

Could you not flip the transaxle around?

I toyed with this idea, but it seemed to be more work than the Jack shaft, I also considered running in reverse for forward but the gears in the transaxle are a bit smaller and the ratio is also a bit different, We did it with Volkswagons back in the day we would install FOrd Pinto 4 bangers in the bugs. They were called PINTO BEANS IF I recall.

 

[Denny]

You seem to have a good plan and a good handle on things. Sorry we just didn’t know how far you thought things through. Most of the time we get kids around here with these grand plans and no thought involved. This is not your case! I’m watching and following along.

 

[Gottaknowjoe]

Newly rebuilt FE350 with 2 small city block run time

Caught in the rain I may need to move this inside. Clearance was added for a bolt head in the org. engine mount
Here are a few updated photos and a link to a short video my Grandson and I made Video short.
I'm still on the fence about the jackshaft and components. 420-size chain sprockets are easy to find ( that are made for these shafts) whereas 530 are not. Also, I'm told the 3/4-inch shaft would give me more options than the 1-inch shaft. Unfortunately, I can't find a 420 size sprocket for the engine so it looks as if 530 will be the chain size but finding a 17 or 18-tooth sprocket for the jackshaft still remains elusive. Last on the short list of my next steps...I need to remove the driven pulley from the transaxle to find out the shaft size and style the transaxle has so I can start looking for the driven pulley/sprocket. I'll most likely end up building the tensioners, never working with them on this scale I do wonder if a simple adjustable one will work or if it will need to be spring-loaded. I think the only time the bottom or return side of the chain gets pressure is when you downshift. But like everything else, I learn as I move forward.
I do thank all of you for the input and replies, it's a bit therapeutic and thought-expanding to type ideas and thoughts. I find myself getting answers to some of my questions as I write them down... Heck If it was easy it would not be as much fun

 

[Gottaknowjoe]

You seem to have a good plan and a good handle on things. Sorry we just didn’t know how far you thought things through. Most of the time we get kids around here with these grand plans and no thought involved. This is not your case! I’m watching and following along.

Lots of GREAT ideas on my part....lol I have a buddy that reels me back in most of the time. I think he was on vacation when I started this

 

[Denny]

Or if he’s anything like me friends they run for the hills when I start creating!

 

[Rat]

I have a brand new built fe 350 I just pulled to leave the lawn tractor sound where it belongs... on the lawn tractor. lol.

Uh There are much easier ways of doing that.
My built 208 sounds nothing like the lawn engine it technically is.

Changing out the exhaust for something a lot less restricted and slightly larger diameter is all it takes... switching the carb where possible helps as well.

I've worked on a Kawasaki powered Club car fairly recently and did not find that it sounded anything like a lawn engine, but if it were mine I would have chopped the exhaust off at the muffler, stepped the diameter up a couple sized and run it down and out just below the rear bumper.

 

[Gottaknowjoe]

Uh There are much easier ways of doing that.
My built 208 sounds nothing like the lawn engine it technically is.

Changing out the exhaust for something a lot less restricted and slightly larger diameter is all it takes... switching the carb where possible helps as well.

I've worked on a Kawasaki powered Club car fairly recently and did not find that it sounded anything like a lawn engine, but if it were mine I would have chopped the exhaust off at the muffler, stepped the diameter up a couple sized and run it down and out just below the rear bumper.

Thanks for the reply
I wish I still had video ( transferred from VHS tapes) of the lawn tractor builds we did back in 85-87. I was all in after a chance meeting at a gas station one weekend. It was the coolest thing I'd ever laid eyes on at the time. Dropped, widened, and the things some of the old guys did to the engines are probably illegal in all 50 states and a few 3rd world countries. lol they sounded wicked. But at the end of the day still sounded like a lawnmower, to me anyway.... You can make power with almost anything with $$$$ But that's not the reason for the build. I have my pros on this decision and most certainly have many cons. I can think of a handful of ways to build a scary fast, powerful cart much easier.. But the Idea to reality is what drives this hobby for me anyway. Vegas karts have some nice buy, bolt-n-go sets they just carry a few challenges. maybe a weekend project, then what would I do the following?
For the last 4 years, I've had an inner desire to build a 1/2-scale highboy roadster. I've priced supplies sketched the build and given it a lot of thought. A Harley engine sitting sideways where the v8 would go in a full-scale world. It's easy for this seed of an idea to grow... But, Time and money and the harsh reality of Where the hell could I use it once built has kept me from moving forward. A place to ride and enjoy these odd builds is the biggest reason I do not follow through... I saw a lot of the little issues before this build was started. Quickly I found more. Mostly finding parts that fit my application. I think everything will take me 4 hours to do... It's a running joke among my mates. The challenge is probably what's appealing to me. I BLAME THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL AND YOUTUBE! lol

 

[Rat]

Thanks for the reply
I wish I still had video ( transferred from VHS tapes) of the lawn tractor builds we did back in 85-87. I was all in after a chance meeting at a gas station one weekend. It was the coolest thing I'd ever laid eyes on at the time. Dropped, widened, and the things some of the old guys did to the engines are probably illegal in all 50 states and a few 3rd world countries. lol they sounded wicked. But at the end of the day still sounded like a lawnmower, to me anyway.... You can make power with almost anything with $$$$ But that's not the reason for the build. I have my pros on this decision and most certainly have many cons. I can think of a handful of ways to build a scary fast, powerful cart much easier.. But the Idea to reality is what drives this hobby for me anyway. Vegas karts have some nice buy, bolt-n-go sets they just carry a few challenges. maybe a weekend project, then what would I do the following?
For the last 4 years, I've had an inner desire to build a 1/2-scale highboy roadster. I've priced supplies sketched the build and given it a lot of thought. A Harley engine sitting sideways where the v8 would go in a full-scale world. It's easy for this seed of an idea to grow... But, Time and money and the harsh reality of Where the hell could I use it once built has kept me from moving forward. A place to ride and enjoy these odd builds is the biggest reason I do not follow through... I saw a lot of the little issues before this build was started. Quickly I found more. Mostly finding parts that fit my application. I think everything will take me 4 hours to do... It's a running joke among my mates. The challenge is probably what's appealing to me. I BLAME THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL AND YOUTUBE! lol

The challenge of building what others say cannot be is what fuels some of my ideas... though most never make it off the sketch pad

 

[Gottaknowjoe]

The challenge of building what others say cannot be is what fuels some of my ideas... though most never make it off the sketch pad

Where's that adventure brother

 

[Denny]

Where's that adventure brother

Old age and enough broken bones kinda takes some of that adventure out of ya.

 

[Master Hack]

Old age and enough broken bones kinda takes some of that adventure out of ya.

Damn kids just don’t get it!