48v 1000 go kart upgrade to 1800w

[Tony86]

No it's fine Sid I feel your pain as you can feel mine makes me laugh a bit if you could hear us both at times ...: , mental health getting tested
But I no your doing your very best to help me and appreciate everything you have done for me and all the time you have put into helping me with my heightest gratitude thank you it means alot and will never be forgotten.... in UK not many people no how to fix these I have tried everywhere and nobody would touch it so you are my hero sid

I will give motor 3 a try as I should off and let you no how that went ....looking at sat night or sunday it will be done ...
With motor 2 have you seen that type of behaviour before ?
Maybe a short in wire although everything seems spot on from what I can see if all fails with 3 then maybe a full check on all connections... which I have done so many times .. would a sensor do that? I'm sure will find out soon enough....

Thankyou very much
Tony

 

[itsid]

I'm almost done with the wiring diagram for you


As you can see still a few questions left to be answered

I'll start from the top:
what is this:

is that the main power switch originally?
can you tell me it's corresponding wire colours?

Next up the speed indicator and battery control indicator
that kart doesn't seem to have a tachometer or speedometer,
and I have no idea how that black plug from the controller is layed out,
so I'd suggest to leave it unplugged
I am missing the wire colours for the battery indicator.

We need to measure the 132 keyed switch still, so please do not wire it up for now.
You also MUST remove the RPD Switch from the kart (at least remove all the wires that are attached to it in order to prevent any mishaps!) (that's where I think you should've put the new forward reverse switch btw )

Does that kart have a brake light?
if so the orange/white would connect to that (white being negative, orange positive)

And finally, the kart appears to have a charger on board..
the red plug is the battery charging port, but IDK if that system matches yours at all.. so for now rather leave it unconnected until we verified that as well.

any chance you can link me the owner manual for that original kart?
That'd likely help me to get a better idea of the kart's original setup,
thus I'd need less asking and so on.
Or if you have a paper manual, maybe you can scan me a pdf from it?

The "switch"y thing that's tucked away so terribly..
looks like a household fusebox to me.
can you please tell me it's rating? if it is a fusebox it might not be fit for your motor setup any more.
in which case it needs to be skipped (or replaced) hence I left it off the diagram for now.

Some side notes:
if you're having issues with the brake switch again (or at any one point)
rather replace it, I think that's the correct replacement part:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Emma-Universal-Motorcycle-Switch-Spring/dp/B073388DVF
(pull to engage is correct I guess; since you haven't answered that yet [please do eventually.. this is STILL important])

'sid

[EDIT]
oops missed your post..
uhm yeah well I think the brake switch is giving you a hard time..
maybe it's the motor's fault, maybe it's the switch..
so try three different configs with break switch plugged in,
unplugged and
unplugged but brake switch wire (black/white) on the controller shorted with a jumper.

 

[Tony86]

Yes the power switch is the same wires and turns on and off no problem ,even tho I bypass the onoff switch the motor still spinned a lil bit .but it only has connected...
Hall sensor
Throttle 3 phase wires
forward and reverse
I have seen few people that had problems and somthing is telling me its the throttle what else could it be ...? Everything connected good no loose connections that I can see everything seems secure

No brake light
I will search for manual
Defo no fuse box
And tried all 3 types with the brake and no change the wheels spin but then stops and did not cut out the brake when bypassed tbh it should of stopped ? , we said that the throttle was running week could that be the case you think ? Got to be either one that's causing it but even without the brake connected it still should go no problem which leaves the throttle ?? Or battery but battery fine it is old tbh but says it's got the 48v ....
Thankyou
Tony

 

[itsid]

Sorry.. my fault lingual issue..
fuse box to me means "circuit breaker" to you

I need to see what you've wired up..

I bet there's something going on there..
since the weak throttle signal make the motor go slow.. but not stop it after a few revolutions.

I bet you haven't removed that stinking rotary switch yet for example.
Or interconencted the attached wires or something.

'sid

 

[Tony86]

yeah the circuit breaker works as far as I no cuts off the power and doing its job did measure the volts from one side to the next and spot on .

The rotary switch is fully disconnected but still remains on the car so can't be stopping it.

I sent pics it can only be 1 of them which makes me think it can only be the throttle ? What else could it be but tbh on testing on ebike tester and our tests seems ok .

This has been the problem from the start and I bet the other motor 2 will work if this issue is fixed it can only be somthing so small no way to bypass the throttle?
I can dissconnect the breaker switch?
Forward and reverse was working perfectly
3 phase wires spot on
And hall sensors are to I have checked for loose connection but they all go in nice and tight ?
Maybe I should try have a wiggle around when connected to see if there is a loose connection but as you said I can't do it for long as it will burn the controller out
I can't put it on the laptop yet as my battery has gone onit now ,had it for years and surprised it's last as long as it has

Thankyou tony

 

[itsid]

Tony, you missed the point again.

What's the rating of the circuit breaker (and don't read any AC rating off it the DC rating is all that matters)

Also: the wiring on the kart is a huge pile of "the unknown"
and as long as you simply connect without measuring the wires that are between the two important bits, you are simply NOT going to succeed.

I give a wet towel for the connectors, I've seen them quite a few times by now.. I want to know where the motor phase wires go..
see every inch of such phase wire..
and if by chance it ends up on that rotary switch (which on the last pic had a few coloured wires still connected)

So no, no stop that please.. and NOOO

A i said much earlier..
everything on that kart has to go!
AND ONLY if it's tested is allowed to return and wired up, that includes the wiring harness.
And that stupid annyoing rotary switch is still connected to the wiring harness I bet.
And that MUST NOT be!

So, continuity test and verify that the brake line is the brake line and not connected to anything BUT the brake line,
And the exact same for exactly every little inch of wire.

'sid

 

[Tony86]

Alright Sid sorry it's bin a few days my nan passed away.

I took the rotary switch off
I have tested the breaker switch( see pics)
I have made a new bypass for on/off switch with clamp grips
I have had no change in the car ...

Thankyou tony

 

[itsid]

Hi Tony, I'm so sorry to hear that
you have my sympathy.

I'll read through the last few pages again maybe I missed something myself;

Will get back to you hopefully tomorrow.

'sid

 

[Tony86]

Thankyou Sid
I double checked the throttle with 5v source seems to be working 100 % I have 2 pics of it with the pedal pushed down and not
Thankyou
Tony

 

[itsid]

great.. 4.4V is a very reasonable result.

I got a bit distracted this WE unfortunately;
with the current craze going on,
a lot of meetings/appointments and such had to be cancelled for the following days
and the whole emailing got me entertained for the most part of this WE.
(felt like with every email I replied to five new filled my inbox ...)

Sorry, I'll do my best, but right now there is close to no planning possible..
if I find the time I'll be back at it, I promise.

Sorry for the delay

'sid

 

[Tony86]

Totally understandable Sid and no problem m8 speak to you soon
Thankyou
Tony

 

[Tony86]

Bin doing some research and I got the motor from mad scooters and I'm going to show you the controller for the 2000w compared to the other 1800w controller I have?

Guessing also the battery might be lagging in power I can check its voltage when the power is drawn from the battery?

And prob nothing to do with the capacitors or upgrade them maybe just guessing ? Or there maybe a overload of power making it shut off?

Also I can check the amps on the battery ? I think they are 20amp If I remember rightly?

Or transistor issue?
Thankyou
Tony

 

[Tony86]

Hi Sid hope everything all good I got a new 2000w controller 100 percent compatible and still got the same problem wheel spins really slowly still scratching head thinking must be battery ? Any ideas would be great thank you tony

 

[itsid]

Hi Tony,
yes on the way back up .. thank you

Anyways, I'm not yet back up to speed with all the months I missed around here,
and frankly I was a bit hesitant getting back to this kart's issues.

Not that I no longer care to make it work,
but I need to re-read everything again to refresh memory and such.
And 8 pages of frustratingly slow progress is not exactly something I look forward to reading

Nevermind..

NO: I doubt it's the battery..
the batpack has 20Ah alright but will certainly be able to provide some 60 Amps easily.
(and you only need maybe 45Amps or so max)


there are two suspects currently..
1) a misconnected wire
(hence me repeating everything on the kart MUST be removed and we need to start from scratch in order to be sure it's all wired correctly)

2) the throttle pedal itself
you said something about a low voltage signal coming from it instead of the full needed 4.2 Volts, and a lower signal means lower speed.. as simple as that

blindly swapping parts is not the answer, I said so before and I'll repeat that again
without knowing what's faulty (or if anything is at all)
that won't help the tiniest bit, it only costs money for no reason.

That's why I am so terribly annoying asking for conenctions and wires and what goes where and so on.

And then we end up at the language barrier again,
somehow I'm not always understanding your answers
as you seem to not fully understand my requests at times.

Now, back to the throttle!
you got a 1.27V signal.. the controllers lowest "motor on" signal is 1.1 Volts
so @ 1.27V the motor is and SHOULD be at crawling speeds
that is perfectly correct.

the controller needs a 4.2V signal to crank the motor up to full speed.
And the throttle should be able to provide it (if in working condition)
So chances are you need to fix or replace the throttle pedal itself

'sid

 

[Tony86]

Haha inoo havent touched it in months gonna get a new pedal first, if that dont work I would like to test the battery again as they have been left for long time without use , is there no way Of testing the battery to see how many Amps we have in the batterys would a load tester help? Or can I take it somewhere else to test them to get accurate readings?

otherwise im gonna buy a new battery.. can you tell me please Sid how many Amps in the battery i can have to run 48v 1800 nicely, and that will be all untill I test all that and hopefully I can give some good news I feel like that's all that's left we covered everything else ....
thanks Sid
Tony

 

[itsid]

Okay, I think you're misunderstanding.

you have ZERO AMPS in your battery!
All you do have is Volts and a charge (the amount of charge is measured in Ah [amp-hours])

Yes you can measure if your battery is in working condition.. very easily!

charge it up to the max, and get a Voltage reading.
Write down the EXACT voltage!
Let it sit for 24hrs and take another measurement.
(Write down the value once more)
if it changed repeat
(let it sit untouched for 24hrs, take Voltage reading and note the voltage down)
until it either drops below 12Volts or stabilizes at a voltage above 12Volts.

Now, the higher the voltage the more charge it holds,
the longer it can hold the charge the better it's condition is.

any lead battery that can hold it's potential above 12.5Volts (after dropping from say 12.8V)
for more than 24hrs can be considered to be in working condition.


Now how much current can be drawn depends on the type of battery,
usually it's safe to assume that any 20Ah battery can easily be loaded with a 20Amp current.
(so you can draw twenty amps without worries)
For short periods of time, they usually happily provide 2 to 3 times that (in case of a 20Ah battery again.. 40 to 60Amps for a few minutes will be fine)
For very brief periods of time ten times it's capacity rating should also not affect it's internals
(that's what manufacturers usually denote as cold cranking amps)
so 200Amps for a few seconds in case of the example 20Ah battery.

Now you can also get a smart battery charger (12V only I'm afraid)
that also checks battery condition and such.. but it's usually much dumber
(a very expensive charger for example tells me my motorcycle battery is in perfect condition, but I know it's loosing charge at a significant rate!)

Anyways.. properly testing is a bit more difficult and what's more: time consuming.
(you'd need to discharge the battery at a low fixed rate and measure the time!)
perfectly pointless unless the above test show a "mediocre" battery condition.

'sid