2-stroke vertical engine

[Jerryburger]

Pix of the B/S 2stroke.

Hi-
Sorry about the poor quality of the pix... My camera doesn't do flash too well. It's physically about the size of a Briggs 90000 series engine. I've ran it in this position, and it seems to run fine. I forgot about the heavier flywheel issue, but to be honest, it seemed okay, running on the the test bench. The carb and air filter are rotated 90 degrees, and that's why the air intake for the filter is in the "wrong" position, if it were to be mounted on a mower.

 

[Russ2251]

Those DuraForce engines must be rare!

Rare only because L-B only made them for a couple of years. Thank the tree huggers for that (CARB, EPA, Al Gore et al). Some folks are dumping these mowers at a phenomenal rate because they believe that these machines are causing global warming. It's all pure Bull Stuff. Their loss...my gain. I have several 2 cycle engines including 8 Lawn-Boys, 2 Clinton kart engines, and a couple of J-321 Jacobsen's and a dozen or so B&S 4 cycle engines dating back to the mid 1930's.
I have seen posts in some karting forums (including this one) that describe 2 cycle engines as being "too complicated" or "too hard to work on". Nothing could be further from the truth. Only 3 moving parts bring them to life compared to a 4 cycle which has 2 to 3 times that amount and, not to mention, twice the weight. 2 cycle engines are high performance by nature and need little to make them even more so. Someday, perhaps soon, nobody will be manufacturing them.
Anyway...let us know how things go.

 

[2or3wheels]

Oh 2-strokes are much more powerful and are sooooo easy to work on. people like 4-strokes for the torque the non-premix(unless injector) and the length of life. But if you mix the gas right you get very minimal smoke and if you do basic matinence i bet it will last just as long as a 4-stroke. Hoefully ill get a welder soon(getting job) and will start the 2-stroke madness.

How many cc's is that, it looks quite larg, maybe 50 or so?

 

[Russ2251]

How many cc's is that, it looks quite larg, maybe 50 or so?

Not sure who you're asking. My Lawn-Boy (pic in post #19 this thread) is 141cc's or about 8.6 cubic inches. Smaller than Honda GX200 @ 196cc's but same horse power.

 

[Jerryburger]

No clue on the B/S engine, except B/S tends to make the first digit of their model # cubic inches, so I'm guessing the B/S motor is between 8 and 9 cubic inches. I'll put it on something, someday. It was free to me, so I just keep it stored.

 

[Russ2251]

No clue on the B/S engine, except B/S tends to make the first digit of their model # cubic inches, so I'm guessing the B/S motor is between 8 and 9 cubic inches. I'll put it on something, someday. It was free to me, so I just keep it stored.

This engine is also 141cc's and as you noted in an earlier post, probably Japanese. Interesting to note that this engine has been discontinued but B&S makes (in USA) a 2 cycle engine called an RTEK (Toro) or DURAFORCE (Lawn-Boy) for snow throwers. As best I can tell, these current incarnations are exclusively snow engines. My Lawn-Boy manufactured DURAFORCE is a reed valve mower engine (6.5hp) while the Briggs manufactured RTEK or DURAFORCE is piston ported making it somewhat less hp (perhaps 4-5) than the reed valved counterpart. I hope I confused everybody! Pic on left is snow engine (note Briggs logo), right pic is mower engine (no logo). These engines are essentially the same other than induction system. I just purchased a new one on Ebay.
http://www.smallenginewarehouse.com...olt+Electric+Start+No+Fuel+Tank+Made+for+Toro

 

[2or3wheels]

i have 2 of the ones on the left, look on the crank, one of the ones i have has those rollers but the onlder snow pup one does not.

 

[Sk8r_On_Fire_]

ok

well, since it is two stroke, i believe that you can just turn it on its side. But, i may be wrong but im thinking that since the oil is mixed with the gas it shouldnt matter if it is on its side

 

[Russ2251]

i may be wrong

It's what I do. Don't know what you're missing until you've run a kart with a 2 cycle. The exhaust smell alone will beckon.

 

[Jerryburger]

How cool! GREAT FIND! So mine must be the piston port model. The price in the new one is a steal! Thanks for the link! This is going to get a few rusty gears in my head spinning!..... PLZ PLZ keep us posted on your results!

 

[Jerryburger]

WOW... from the pix, it looks like its a diaphram carb and a 1" shaft! I'll bet those 4 holes around the crank could be adapted to a Comet Torq-a-Verter. Nice little powerplant options, there.

 

[Jblankster]

hmm. i got a 2 stroke toro snow blower if we ever get a new one, I KNOW WHERE IM GETTING MY NEXT ENGINE!

 

[Russ2251]

WOW... from the pix, it looks like its a diaphragm carb and a 1" shaft! I'll bet those 4 holes around the crank could be adapted to a Comet Torq-a-Verter. Nice little power plant options, there.

Hokey smoke Bullwinkle!...Ordered it Sunday and received it today. That's quick. Next time I need an engine, I'm going here first.
http://www.smallenginewarehouse.com
Anyway...At first glance. it is a thing of beauty but is a little heavy for a 2 cycle. It is brand new.
A few things here have to be changed/removed/modified/disabled.
1.) Bowl carburetor and intake manifold has to go. Adapter plate will be used to accept a Walbro wb32 or a Tillotson HT5A. I will have to see how this goes as these carbs are untested for this displacement range.
2.) PTO is actually 25 mm or 0.984 inch meaning that I will have to use .007 shim stock to make up the difference to fit 1" bore centrifugal clutch. I've done this before and is no big deal.
3.) 120 volt starter will go away along within ring gear on flywheel.
4.) Key way will have to be widened to accept a 1/4 inch key. It is now 5 mm or .194 inch. A difference of .056 inch. I'm on the fence about this mod.
5.) Governor....needs no explanation. Complete removal via 1 small screw.

As far as torq-a-verter goes....simple answer is...I just don't know. Unless someone wants to donate one to the cause, I have no way of checking for fit.

 

[Jblankster]

^get a vid of it running and/or on a kart!

 

[Russ2251]

Maybe mañana. I have it temporarily mounted on 5/8 plywood and needs fuel tank. Just to clarify...My converted Lawn-Boy DURAFORCE is actually more powerful (by 1.5 hp) and will be more impressive performance wise.
These engines are fraternal rather than identical twins. As stated in an earlier post, the L-B is reed valve while the Briggs (Toro) is piston ported. Piston ported engines generally do not perform as well as reed intakes (a few exceptions) hence the lower horsepower rating on the Briggs. I found it curious that L-B takes 32:1 oil mix while the Briggs engine takes 50:1. I'm not sure if this due to the way it is ported or the fact that this engine is meant to be used in colder conditions. The hotter a 2 cycle runs...the more oil it needs. I will run them both with 32:1 ratio. More oil never hurts...just a little more smoke.

 

[Russ2251]

Update on Briggs 2 cycle and vertical stuff

Mounting of new Briggs 2 cycle snow engine on kart almost completed. I will post video on youtube at that time.

I recently acquired a Briggs Quantum 6.5 hp vertical shaft engine. My intention is to (somehow) mount this to my kart.
There is nothing impossible in this idea. Supporting this monstrosity will be the biggest challenge given the diameter of oil sump with 3 bolt holes. I have used cantilever type mounts on my 2 cycle conversions which works well.
I think I've nailed down (heavy use of A. Einstein's "thought experiments") any lubrication issues. This engine has an oil slinger, and as I mentioned in another post, may work in horizontal position as long as slinger is making enough contact with oil while in upright position.
If slinger doesn't work, I can remove it and make a custom oil dipper to bolt onto rod cap which would solve lubrication problems, but, may create some balancing issues. Any thoughts, opinions, suggestions, etc. are greatly appreciated! PHEW...

 

[alfalfa]

how did you hold the clutch in position?

 

[alfalfa]

I'm thinking of putting a duraforce on a minibike

 

[Russ2251]

Requires removal of crankshaft from engine.
2 flats have to be ground onto crankshaft end for set screws, on clutch, to get a grip. Knowing somebody at a machine shop helps.
See related posts here:
http://www.diygokarts.com/vb/showthread.php?t=910

 

[2or3wheels]

why not get a set screw?