1983 B&S Flathead (130200 series) Breakdown/Rebuild

[bob58o]

I've got an older Dremel Sears Craftsman model where you can hang the motor drive or put it on a swivel baser. It has a 3" flexible drive shaft that terminates in a pen style rotating chuck.

Other people have the self contained, all-in-one Dremel about the size of an old glass Coke bottle.

Word is that Harbor Freight has what might be a decent "Dremel" for the price... don't know about that one.

I like this one

 

[bob58o]

I love this one

 

[bob58o]

The above works well with this

 

[LeeMajors]

Well, you're off to a good start and are well qualified to do a Briggs based on your previous engine project. These engines are so easy to work on and everyone should do at least one--either a refurbishment to restore it to operation or a balls-to-the-walls conversion into a 27 hp monster (your mileage may vary, void where prohibited).

I just thought you wanted to get it running quickly and cheaply for some basic, easy go-karting fun with your son, remember?

Now you're creating a monster... Okay. I'm good with that.

You know I forget this sometimes and wind up turning even the littlest things into a HUGE project. I gotta work on that. But in the meantime I better pick up the pace on this thing!

True...but I take a simpler approach....take the air filter off...shoot some carb cleaner in the carb throat....if it runs for a few seconds....I know it's good to go.

But he's already got plans to modify this engine...still...I think I'd want to hear it run first.

I wish I knew these kinds of tricks? I'll definitely be keeping this in mind when I go to buy my next one! lol! I actually just found another 130200 Series close by for $25 that I might grab!? AND a Honda GX270 with a thrown rod for $20! Of course the guy with the Honda doesn't want to tell me anything about it (such as what the heck he was using it for when it threw the rod?) but I think I might at least take a look at it to see if the head/block/valves are toast or not?

$22 Harbor Freight

Sanding cones smooth out hard to reach places so your parts look brand new again! This 52-piece cone set features 80 and 120 grit bits and tough carbon steel shanks that allow you to port and polish your engine like a professional. The sanding cone set includes two arbors, 10 tapered 80 grit bits and 10 tapered 120 grit bits.
Sanding cone- and cylinder-shaped abrasives reach into tight spaces
Make your old parts look like new
Tapered 2 in. x 1/2 in. bits in 80 and 120 grit
Carbon steel shanks with black oxide coating

I think I ended up using some better quality ones from Eastwood.
http://www.eastwood.com/abrasive-tapers.html

And I love these
320 girt finishing buffs.
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Dremel-51...75035&wl11=online&wl12=47182406&wl13=&veh=sem

I like this one

I love this one

Thanks for the suggestions I'll check them out tonight! Those pen style ones are GREAT especially the flexible style like Hellion mentioned.

3 things I do when presented with an 'unknown condition' small engine

1) Pull the cord gently to see if it is seized, and then sharply to see if it has compression

2) Pull the plug and test for spark.

3) Install fresh plug and mist some 2 stroke mix fuel in the carb and see if it will fire.

If it passes these 3 tests, then I know I have a runner with minimal work. If it fails, then I start disassembling to see if I have a builder or parts.

Thank you for this^^^ Like I said to Poboy Kartman these are the kinds of tricks I'll be adding to my toolbelt. Prior to buying this engine the most I'd ever done with little 2 and 4 strokes is pull the cord! And even that was done few and far between. I never had a yard or anything of the sort so I've literally only started these kinds of engines maybe a handful of times? At any rate Thank you. I appreciate the knowledge.

 

[Hellion]

All that stuff Bob mentioned requires air from an air compressor, which in turn runs off electricity.

My Dremel is electric by itself. Requires nothing else, no air tool lubricant and no air (that you'd have to wait on while the compressor pumps up to full capacity). Also, I did my port and polish of the intake and exhaust at my desk... indoors.

Not saying you cannot do the same with your compressor in the garage and 50 ft of air hose snaked into your workspace...

Now if you already have a compressor, fine. It may suit you to have all those die grinders and micro die grinders but they would seem to have very specific, industrial uses. My deal is for hobbyists and has the ability to take all kinds of bits and has variable speed to top it off..... ?

 

[LeeMajors]

All that stuff Bob mentioned requires air from an air compressor, which in turn runs off electricity.

My Dremel is electric by itself. Requires nothing else, no air tool lubricant and no air (that you'd have to wait on while the compressor pumps up to full capacity). Also, I did my port and polish of the intake and exhaust at my desk... indoors.

Not saying you cannot do the same with your compressor in the garage and 50 ft of air hose snaked into your workspace...

Now if you already have a compressor, fine. It may suit you to have all those die grinders and micro die grinders but they would seem to have very specific, industrial uses. My deal is for hobbyists and has the ability to take all kinds of bits and has variable speed to top it off..... ?

I do have a compressor etc... but no I'm with you a 1000%! I'd LOVE to get a small electric Dremel type tool ESPECIALLY one with the flexible extension like yours has! I don't have any micro-dies tho (I wish I did), they really start getting pricey for almost any level of quality and up until now I didn't have the need for one. But if I can find an electric Dremel w/flexible extension at a reasonable price I'm gonna jump on it for sure!

On a side note what do you think about that GX270 for 25 bucks with a thrown rod? Should I check it out, or do you think it's more than likely toast?

 

[Hellion]

Can't say for sure about the Honda. Those engines are renowned for their toughness and longevity so it begs the question what the owner has done to destroy it like that. That's catastrophic failure right there and I would imagine there's a hole in the block.

You could check it out, pull the pull start gently, check for rattles and ominous noises from within. The engine might have value, scrap value, if it's truly (burnt) toast.

If so, I dunno. Offer him $2.00.

 

[chancer]

My 2cents.
Check Harbor freight for a cheap Electric rotary tool and bits. No, the long term Quality is not there but for a $40 Briggs I think it would get the job done nicely.
and the GX 270. Not worth it. There are so many parts for a GX200 you can easily get more HP out of it than a 270, Just due to Hop up parts availability.

 

[shelby1]

...................... MAYBE a valve job, and definitely PnP'ing the ports and head (especially after seeing those casting flaws)
Lee resist all urges to do any kind of porting in the intake port of that engine..... it is already too big, clean up with a light sanding and thats it, when you pull the carb look at the difference in sizes and you will see what I mean, flow being pulled tru that small diameter in the carb then dropped into that big port and fuel can drop out of suspension, I have seen people have to go to larger jet to try to cure this ( this was racing flat heads), and check the top of that carb right along the casting line that runs the length of the carb , if it has the number 2 cast into it ,it is the best carb ( as far as flow) that ever was produced and it is found mostly on tiller motors .
Good Luck these engines are easy builds
Kenny

 

[bob58o]

These engines are easy builds
Kenny

All the people I punished with 75 pages me learning engines, kart or otherwise, will understand when I say..

"It depends" LOL

 

[LeeMajors]

...................... MAYBE a valve job, and definitely PnP'ing the ports and head (especially after seeing those casting flaws)
Lee resist all urges to do any kind of porting in the intake port of that engine..... it is already too big, clean up with a light sanding and thats it, when you pull the carb look at the difference in sizes and you will see what I mean, flow being pulled tru that small diameter in the carb then dropped into that big port and fuel can drop out of suspension, I have seen people have to go to larger jet to try to cure this ( this was racing flat heads), and check the top of that carb right along the casting line that runs the length of the carb , if it has the number 2 cast into it ,it is the best carb ( as far as flow) that ever was produced and it is found mostly on tiller motors .
Good Luck these engines are easy builds
Kenny

It's funny you mentioned that today... i was just out in the garage cleaning up the flywheel and I was looking at the ID of the carb thinking "jeez that's REALLY small compared to that intake port!?"... So I hear you man! I'm definitely going to take your advice and go easy on it, I just want to clean up those casting flaws, nothing more. Especially on the intake port, too many "first timers" will PnP the intake not realizing how detrimental it can be to fuel atomization. Porting is one thing, but the polishing should be left for the exhaust.

Also I have to check out that carb and see if it has any numbers in it? How lucky would I be if it IS that good one though!? Thanks for the heads up man, I appreciate it.

Updates:
I just ordered a gasket set from ARC along with a .032 copper head gasket. And I think I'm gonna grab the, stock replacement, billet connecting rod they sell too... to lighten up it's rotating mass and pull the governor. Also planning to check out IMI Auctions to get my clutch (ty Hellion) only problem is, idk the first darn thing about them!? What size, how many teeth, what series (#30, #40?), etc...? I also want to run a live axle but have the same issue as above ^^^ ? Is it possible to find a decent use able axle at the junkyard? Apparently the lock "u-pull-it" has a pretty extensive small engine section with everything from lawn tractors to motorcycles and quads, so I'm curious if any of you are familiar any commonly swapped parts that can be pulled from tractors or quads and used on go karts? If so plz lmk?...and as always thank you all for your replies and help!

 

[chancer]

As far as the Gears.
Most karts are #35 chain and sprockets.
Or
#41 Chain and sprockets.
If you do not have either I would go with #35. #40 is stronger but not needed. and in my Experience #35 is more popular.

For a typical 5Hp Yard Kart you will want to gear it at 6:1 So...
A #35 12 tooth 3/4 bore Clutch will do with a 72 tooth Axle sprocket.
Since you are in PA, I would also suggest shopping at BMI Karts in Ohio for Axles and Gears Brakes etc.
I prefer to Phone in orders, their computer automatically Charges too much for shipping.

 

[Hellion]

...There are so many parts for a GX200 you can easily get more HP out of it than 270...

Oh, so the number designation is the horsepower rating? 270 hp is impressive for such a small engine! No wonder it blew up. I'd go with the GX200; 200 is plenty.

Hey Lee, be sure to photo document those shiny speed parts when they come in so we can see what they look like before they disappear inside the engine.

Have you got the crankshaft and piston removed yet? I've got my fingers crossed for a nice cylinder with minimal wear...

 

[chancer]

Oh, so the number designation is the horsepower rating? 270 hp is impressive for such a small engine! No wonder it blew up. I'd go with the GX200; 200 is plenty.

Who said 270HP? I bet it is cheaper, faster and easier to get 10 HP out of a GX200 than a GX270.

 

[bob58o]

I just ordered 10 stickers.

Not sure if that means 2000cc or 200HP? But I'll be up there too!!!


Do I put the protective coating DIYGK sticker directly on the piston top or does it need to be prepped with Munster and Cured in the Microwave First???

 

[Hellion]

Who said 270HP?

You said 270 HP. See my original quoted reply. I could speculate that you left out a demonstrative adjective but who can tell?

 

[LeeMajors]

As far as the Gears.
Most karts are #35 chain and sprockets.
Or
#41 Chain and sprockets.
If you do not have either I would go with #35. #40 is stronger but not needed. and in my Experience #35 is more popular.

For a typical 5Hp Yard Kart you will want to gear it at 6:1 So...
A #35 12 tooth 3/4 bore Clutch will do with a 72 tooth Axle sprocket.
Since you are in PA, I would also suggest shopping at BMI Karts in Ohio for Axles and Gears Brakes etc.
I prefer to Phone in orders, their computer automatically Charges too much for shipping.

Awesome! Thank you man... and a big THANK YOU for that suggestion about using BMI Karts. I'll check them out this evening if I get a chance.

Oh, so the number designation is the horsepower rating? 270 hp is impressive for such a small engine! No wonder it blew up. I'd go with the GX200; 200 is plenty.

Hey Lee, be sure to photo document those shiny speed parts when they come in so we can see what they look like before they disappear inside the engine.

Have you got the crankshaft and piston removed yet? I've got my fingers crossed for a nice cylinder with minimal wear...

I'm a picture taking fool bro! So yes I'll be thoroughly documenting the entire process as I go along, including the shiny new stuff!

As for the crankshaft etc... No. Sadly I haven't had the time to get around to that yet. I'm literally working on it in like 2min intervals when I can sneak into the garage while I'm outside doing other thing's with my son, or yard work, or whatnot. See I used to do all my projects in the middle of the night, while my wife and son were asleep... but lately the boy has gotten hip to that and realized that daddy stays up all night working in the garage or playing games on the computer. So NOW what he does is he acts like he's asleep until mommy goes to sleep and then he sneaks downstairs to hang out with daddy. Well, as cool as that may be in it's own little way; quite frankly, it SUCKS!... for daddy cause now I can't get anything done. He's not at that age yet where it's cool or fun for him to "help" dad in the garage. So anyway, he'll be starting back at school soon and I should have time to bang this project out then.

I do have a few small updates though and they're not the best news I could've hoped for. First I took your advice (Hellion) and used the wire wheel on the flywheel and it looks MUCH better now. 2nd, I finally had a chance to yank the head and just as I had suspected, after peering through the spark-plug hole, the rings appear to be shot and it was burning quite a bit of oil. As for the cylinder.... mehh.. it's 50/50? For the most part it looks good but there is some scoring on the one side. Maybe 7 or 8 scratches in total and only one that's deep enough to feel. Regardless it will need to be honed. I'm pretty sure the hone will get the scratches and if not then I'll just have it bored. Now I do have a question: Are these blocks the "Kool Bore" blocks? because I don't see any iron sleeving going on here? But maybe on these smaller engines it's different than a regular car engine? For instance if you look at the pics of my turbo engine build on that Honda motor it has cast iron sleeves and you can clearly see them from the top of the block. But on this little Briggs engine it appears to all be the same type of metal? There's no clear indication of a cylinder sleeve, at least not from the top anyway? So plz lmk what you guys think? Cause from what I've gathered you're not supposed to bore/hone those "Kool Bores" due to their all aluminum composition and the risk of warpage etc... Ok, so here's the before/after flywheel pics and then straight into the head/cylinder pics:

 

[LeeMajors]

Pics cont. ^^^

 

[LeeMajors]

Alright fellas nix that question about the type of block... The Briggs engines with Iron sleeves will have the I/C moniker on the shroud. Those without are all Kool-bore. Yall probably knew that though? lol! So yea this block's a Kool-bore. Which kinda sucks, I think? I gotta measure it and see what I'm working with so I have a baseline and then I'll try to hone the scratches out and see what I'm left with. I may wind up needing an oversized piston, rings, etc... Or I may just grab some new rings and roll the dice? because truth be told those scratches are nowhere near where the magic happens and I highly doubt it's losing any compression on the upstroke because of them. BUT from the looks of all the oil it was burning I have to assume that it was coming in through that one significant scratch...? ANy of you ever hone a Kool-bore block? lmk? Thx in advance

 

[Hellion]

When Poboy and the others mentioned the easy checks for seeing if you have a decent engine (starter or carb fluid sprayed in the carb or in spark plug hole), did you think to notice whether it had decent compression when you pulled the starter rope?

Mine didn't. It pulled too easily (and wanted to keep 'coasting' as there was almost nil compression to stop the flywheel) but I didn't really care.

I think you can hone these and go through several oversizes before the block is toast. Let me get back to you on some references.