Diamonite Electrathon America Racer

[Functional Artist]

More drawin'...just 'cause

After re-reviewing this (previously posted) concept drawin'

I got ta thinkin'
...maybe somethin' like this

Some personal commentary:
I wasa thinkin' that by "criss-crossing" the (2) roll hoops they would
1.) re-enforce each other (triangulation) without needing more/extra "bars" or pieces
2.) seems like this design, would provide better side impact protection (for the drivers shoulder & head area)
3.) would also, help re-enforce the "backing plate" for the suspension too

Which eventually led to this iteration
...which seems a bit more compact
...& brings the fulcrum (or pivot point) of the swing arm, further ahead too

Hmmm...What ya'all think??

 

[Functional Artist]

I've been doin' lots more research
...more thinkin'
...some more drawin'
...& even some CAD (cardboard aided design) modeling

Let's start off the new year (2026) with an informational video

* It seems to explain some of the ground effect principles...pretty goodly

 

[Denny]

It’s going to be a llllooooooonnnggg time before you have to worry about any of that Kevin. Unless you’re falling off a mountain or something like that.


This AI drool is so incomplete it’s almost wrong.

 

[Functional Artist]

It’s going to be a llllooooooonnnggg time before you have to worry about any of that Kevin. Unless you’re falling off a mountain or something like that.


This AI drool is so incomplete it’s almost wrong.

Hey Denny,

Well...we got's no mountains here in Northwestern Ohio
&
I completely understand that my little racers, aren't going anywhere near as fast as
...most any full-size car
...& especially full-size racecars
But

I'm thinkin' more about efficiency & handling
...& the air flowing under & over the car
...can & does affect both
So

Managing &/or manipulating that air, flowing under & over is very important
&/so/since
I've been working on designing & constructing monocoque chassis, I've been doing lots more research
...trying to learn more about
...& especially, try-n-understand "aero" better
&/so

After reading several more books (automotive, marine & aircraft)
...& watching (literally) hundreds more videos, I went ahead & posted the video above
...which seemed to explain & summarize many aspects, associated with automotive aero...pretty well
&
Seemed like a "good way" to expand on our conversation

Here are some of the Technical Terms I've been learning about

Automotive ground effect
...refers to the aerodynamic principles that enhance a vehicle's performance by reducing drag and increasing downforce.

Bernoulli's principle
...states that in a flowing fluid, an increase in velocity occurs simultaneously with a decrease in pressure or potential energy.

The Venturi effect
...is a fluid dynamics phenomenon where fluid pressure decreases and velocity increases as it flows through a constricted section of a pipe.

The law of mass conservation
...states that mass cannot be created or destroyed in a closed system; it remains constant over time, even as it changes forms.

The continuity equation
...expresses the idea that certain quantities are conserved as they flow through a system. For example, in fluid dynamics, it states that the mass flow rate of a fluid must remain constant from one cross-section of a pipe to another, assuming no mass is added or removed.

Some things I noted
...& want to "look into" further

Neutral balance handling
...center of gravity
...center of pressure
...& ride height

 

[Functional Artist]

Some drawins' & notes

From my research

1.) A flat floor would "streamline" the underside of the car
...promoting air flow

2.) A flat floor, with a diffuser on the rear
...should promote more air flow under the car
...by making the exit "bigger"

3.) A flat but slightly curved floor, with a diffuser on the rear
...should speed up the air, flowing under the car
...promoting even more air to flow, out from under the car

4.) A flat/smooth but slightly curved floor, with side skirts & a diffuser on the rear
...should speed up the air, flowing under the car...even better
...& promoting even more air to flow, out from under the car

An additional benefit would be
..."if" this "aero" (smooth curved floor, with side skirts & a diffuser) would
...create a lower pressure area under the car
...which may/would aid in tire grip, overall handling & stability

 

[ezcome-ezgo]

I have been an aerodynamics nerd since my teen years. You learn the fundamentals from research related to flying. You'll find that that knowledge simply can't be "turned upside down" to apply to keeping a car on the ground. Your last illustration is starting to look like a wing, which is actually not good.

Here the airflow is actually being "compressed" as it flows under, which will apply force upon the vehicle separating it from the road surface.


Ideally then, you want the vast majority of the laminar airflow going over the top of, through and lastly around the vehicle.

What the engineers who build race cars do is create a "bubble" underneath the vehicle so when that little bit of air that gets under there flows along and suddenly finds itself in a "vacuum" low pressure environment. This vacuum holds the vehicle down and most importantly holds the center of the vehicle down. If the air flows under and realizes that same vacuum effect, but at the rear of the car, it is creating an unbalanced force on the vehicle as a whole. Also there must be a side skirt (or the like) around the front and sides of the vehicle to sustain this vacuum effect.



Class dismissed.

 

[Functional Artist]

Hey Ez,

Kool, (more stuff we got in common) I've just been gettin' more into it...recently

Application
...use
...& goals
...ALL have to be "factored in"

Um...OK...what ya think
...of this guys aero explanations?
...& his/their real-world results?

 

[Functional Artist]

Hey Bob,

That's kinda what I thought too
...but, I've been reading, Composite Construction for Homebuilt Aircraft (Jack Lambie)
...& it has a little bit of a different explanation

Here are a couple of excerpts

"Lift
Wings sustain an airplane by accelerating air downward. This causes a reaction upward as Isaac Newton explained many years ago, with his third law of motion. There is an equal and opposite reaction to every action.
Some students of flight have been ingrained with the theory of flight as described by Daniel Bernoulli of the eighteenth century. He correctly noted that when air speeded up the pressure dropped, and when retarded the pressure increased." (page 13.)

"Bernoulli's theory was used to describe how an airplane wing lifts, causing confusion for many. Most texts, including FAA manuals, used a description of lift which says. "A wing airfoil is shaped so the air must go further over the top than the bottom. Since the air molecules must meet at the back of the wing the air goes faster over the longer curve of the top of the airfoil. Most of the lift of a wing comes from this air speeding upover the curved top of the wing, creating low pressure, which sucks the wing up."

"Unfortunately, Bernoulli's Theory only describes the secondary effect of how the forces are transferred to the wing. It does NOT describe the basic phenomena. By using it as a primary description, many pilots can't understand how an airplane flys upside down, or why an undercambered airfoil produces more lift than one with a flat bottom. In a convoluted way, Bernoulli's (theory) can be used to understand those effects. But, is has been such a poor choice of lift descriptions that has set back the simple understanding of basic aerodynamics for over a generation." (page 14. & 15.)

"In science what is considered "true" is the simplest explanation that covers the most the most phenomena. Newtons "Action-Reaction" wins easily. It covers every motion from running, (pushing back on the ground drives you forward) to swimming and propellers, (accelerating water or air in one direction drives you in the other), and rockets (which blast out a great mass of fuel down to react them upward)." (page 16.)
View attachment 151174
"So, to understand aerodynamics, and lift in particular, the basic and far more meaningful idea is Action (air being accelerated down) and Reaction (lift). A wing is like a vane that turns air. It grabs air from above and pushes it down. You don't need an airfoil curved more on the top than the bottom. A square edged plank will lift if it deflects air down (but its poor shape will make for high drag). A properly shaped airfoil is simply the best way to create lift with the least amount of drag for a given amount of lifting force." (page 17.)
View attachment 151175
"Another test of a "true" theory's simplicity is considering how close it is to human experience." (page 16.)

* Here is some personal commentary on Sir Issac Newtons Theory
...from my own personal/human experience

I remember riding in a car, when I was a kid & sticking my hand out the window to "play" with the air

I remember that "if" I held my hand "level" or horizontal it would "cut" thru the air, with out much reaction
...but, "if" I angled (or tilted) the front of my hand upward (~45*) my hand (& arm) would "lift" (I was creating lift) just like an airplane wing
...& "if" I angled (or tilted) the front of my hand downward (~45*) my hand (& arm) would "dive" (I was creating down force)
...& also, "if" I angled (or turned) my hand vertical (~90*) my hand (& arm) would be pushed directly backwards
(kinda like how the sail on a sailboat, catches the wind)

I remembered reading about "this stuff" in a book...somewhere...
...& info in this video seems to co-oberate much of "this stuff"

 

[Functional Artist]

drawin'

&

&

some CAD (cardboard aided design) modeling

Emmy- (Ducky's daughter) Test driver

Demon-Chief mechanic
...& Rusty-(also, Ducky's daughter) Chief designer

Emmy-Inspecting the cockpit

Emmy-What's with all the pics?

 

[Master Hack]

Cats love that CAD engineering

 

[Whitetrashrocker]

You just made a new box. Cats best toy.

 

[Functional Artist]

You just made a new box. Cats best toy.

Hey WTR,
They can have it...when I'ma done...with it

Here is some of what I'ma thinkin'...so far

This CAD model is a 2:1
...so, the cockpit is 9" x 24" (18"W x 48"L)
...the side sponces (I think they are called) are 6" x 6" (12"Wx 12"T)
...space from behind seat to the rear is 6" (12"D)

The front wheels are to be "housed" in the sponces
...& the rear wheel will be "hidden" in the center of the rear
...in between the (2) rear aero tunnels

A view of the frontal air intake

Side view illustrating a slightly "kicked upwards" floor board

An under view of aero tunnels (the "blocker" in the tunnel is only for CAD construction purposes)

Rear view
...left tunnel exit
...rear wheel well
...right tunnel exit

 

[ezcome-ezgo]

This is fun. Keep at it.

 

[Functional Artist]

This is fun. Keep at it.

Hey EZ,
Yup, I too am having a "hoot" of a time learning, thinking about & "playing" with this stuff

I have been an aerodynamics nerd since my teen years. You learn the fundamentals from research related to flying. You'll find that that knowledge simply can't be "turned upside down" to apply to keeping a car on the ground. Your last illustration is starting to look like a wing, which is actually not good.

The video How airplane wings REALLY generate lift seems to concentrate on these (3) aspects
1.) Pressure differences
2.) Air forces
3.) Air flow

I took a pic of this airfoil (from last video) so we could discuss further

We are working on a vehicle, that will be moving thru air
...so, we will have to deal with air flow
&
Because the vehicle will have differing surfaces
...we will have to deal with pressure differences

Notice the Angle of Attack of this airfoil?

Seems ta me that "if" the Angle of Attack was angled downwards
...so, the bottom was mostly horizontal
...any "lift" from the force of the air would be minimalized

Next, I don't understand why some &/or many of the same aspects wouldn't "work" if/when inverted or flipped over

Because any air, flowing "past" the airfoil, doesn't know
..."if" the airfoil was upside down or right side up

Again, if the top/flat side of the airfoil was mostly horizontal
...there shouldn't be much of any lift or downforce created (at any speed)
But,
The air flowing toward the front of the shape should still collide with the front of the shape
...creating higher pressure

* Even if it's just a little bit of a (higher) pressure difference
...it could be turned into a benefit
...by helping the air to flow better, faster &/or more efficiently past the body
&
Then, the air flows along the smooth surfaces
...& exits off/out the rear
...potentially creating thrust (even if it just creates a little bit of thrust, it would be a benefit too)

 

[Functional Artist]

Check out the aero on these Shadow race cars, from the early 1970's

They are built with aluminum monocoques
...& fiberglass body panels
&
Are powered by 700HP -1,000HP engines
...& have top speeds of nearly 200MPH

 

[Denny]

Take a look at a wing then the side view of your race car and you’ll see many similarities between an inverted wing and it.

 

[ezcome-ezgo]

The main difference is that a wing is out there in the atmosphere, but a vehicle is right down on the surface of the earth. The earth has something to say about it.

 

[Whitetrashrocker]

The main difference is that a wing is out there in the atmosphere, but a vehicle is right down on the surface of the earth. The earth has something to say about it.

Yes. When flying theres a thing called ground effect.
Just after rotatation, lift off, there is good lift. But you dont just pull up. You level out and gain some airspeed before ascending again. If you dont, and just keep rising you don't have enough lift and can stall.

Of course power has alot to say about this also. Watch some STOL competition videos.

Upon landing, ground effect comes into play again. Just as your about to flare for touch down, if your speed is to high you will just kinda float and will not descend normally. Either you float down the runway till you lose some speed or you stall and land extremely hard.

As for cars. Look at the air dams they put on them to prevent air from getting underneath.

 

[Denny]

I like the air brakes on the #1 car!

 

[Whitetrashrocker]

How's this for air brakes.