New Manco super deuce owner

[Papanicko57]

Dammit, Pancho keeps making (monetary and practical) sense. Two seater karts are the way to go. Maybe it keeps more intensity in the activity because the passenger will always be jonesing for their turn. How many grandkids ya got?

Just 5, which is plenty for now! They are a bit too young for this thing right now, but their parents and I are more than willing to drive them around!

 

[Kartorbust]

Trying to find a Dana H12 gearbox with axles is going to be a long challenge. Could be waiting years. Alternatively, there are forward/reverse gearboxes for go karts now, they might be more robust than some from 20+ years ago. They will in theory handle about 18hp, so like a 460cc engine, possibly a Zongshen 625cc.

The gearboxes generally have a built in gear reduction of 2:1, effectively doubling the output gear ratio. You would have to convert to a solid axle and you'll want to run multiple bearings, to keep it solid and have ones close to where the wheel hubs mount to, to prevent the axles from bending too much.

Another option would be to do what Baja SAE did for years, get an ATV gearbox. Besides neutral, forward, and reverse, some have a high range and real low range. Off the top of my head, the early 1990s like 1991-1993 Polaris Trailboss 250 and 350 gearboxes will work. Will need to get the driven pulley that came with the gearbox and then get either a Comet 94c Duster driver or Comet 780 driver. Those should have a wide enough belt to run the Polaris gearbox without problems. Would suggest either the 250 or the 4x2 350 gearbox. The 250 is already 2wd only. The 4x4 350 has a much wider output shaft, because those ran chains for the front end. The 2wd versions, just runs a single sprocket to the rear. The 4wd runs two sprockets and they have a support bearing in the middle.

If you don't want to run sprockets, you would have to find a wrecked quad or one with a seized engine, and pulley the gearbox off. Some should be 4wd units, but you don't have to run a front differential with a driveshaft. You'll just have the output for the rear which is CV axles. But that's if you want to run independent rear suspension.

 

[Papanicko57]

I wonder if it was discovered, while these buggies were still being made (or afterwards), that the axles were “defective” or the weak link that kept breaking all the time and that’s why there’s no spare parts. People bought up all the spares after a time. But then again the Deuce is long out of production and karts/buggies have a habit of sticking around instead of being sent to the crusher like automobiles. A perpetually needy patient.

You could be right, I know that if I find any I’d probably buy 2! I would not have bought the Manco in the first place but several sites showed the part in stock, then when I ordered they said they were just kidding!

 

[Papanicko57]

Trying to find a Dana H12 gearbox with axles is going to be a long challenge. Could be waiting years. Alternatively, there are forward/reverse gearboxes for go karts now, they might be more robust than some from 20+ years ago. They will in theory handle about 18hp, so like a 460cc engine, possibly a Zongshen 625cc.

The gearboxes generally have a built in gear reduction of 2:1, effectively doubling the output gear ratio. You would have to convert to a solid axle and you'll want to run multiple bearings, to keep it solid and have ones close to where the wheel hubs mount to, to prevent the axles from bending too much.

Another option would be to do what Baja SAE did for years, get an ATV gearbox. Besides neutral, forward, and reverse, some have a high range and real low range. Off the top of my head, the early 1990s like 1991-1993 Polaris Trailboss 250 and 350 gearboxes will work. Will need to get the driven pulley that came with the gearbox and then get either a Comet 94c Duster driver or Comet 780 driver. Those should have a wide enough belt to run the Polaris gearbox without problems. Would suggest either the 250 or the 4x2 350 gearbox. The 250 is already 2wd only. The 4x4 350 has a much wider output shaft, because those ran chains for the front end. The 2wd versions, just runs a single sprocket to the rear. The 4wd runs two sprockets and they have a support bearing in the middle.

If you don't want to run sprockets, you would have to find a wrecked quad or one with a seized engine, and pulley the gearbox off. Some should be 4wd units, but you don't have to run a front differential with a driveshaft. You'll just have the output for the rear which is CV axles. But that's if you want to run independent rear suspension.

Thanks for your advice! To further complicate the Dana h12 gearbox, my understanding is that Manco used different gearing (1:8 maybe ?) than most other users of the gearbox. So regearing might be necessary even if I found another h12.

I’m torn between scrapping this project and starting over or doing all the work necessary to get it going again! I like tinkering, but this may be too much work. Not sure the juice is worth the squeeze

 

[Kartorbust]

I wouldn't scrap it. Its a great starting point for modification. Yeah Dana ran multiple gear ratios. Think 12:1 or lower in golf carts and 8:1 was spec'd for Manco.

 

[Hellion]

I’m torn between scrapping this project and starting over or....

Keep it but supplement it with...

 

[panchothedog]

If ya win the lottery and want to get something made call these guys.

Custom Axle | Front Rear | Bolt in | Inner Front | Floater | c clip | Dutchman Axles

To Find more about and order Custom Axles | Made to Order | Forged Alloy Axle Shafts | Bolt in | C Clip | Full Float | Front Inner Dana 44 60

dutchmanaxles.com

That's some pretty nice hardware. Race car stuff, but they certainly could solve Papanicks problem.

 

[Papanicko57]

Keep it but supplement it with...

View attachment 159317

I’ll be showing some ignorance here, but are you suggesting a specific kart? If so, which one? Or is this a generic picture and suggestion?

 

[Papanicko57]

From what I’ve learned from everyone’s suggestions, my plan of attack is:

1 find a local shop that can weld the two axle parts together. Hopefully that is possible, and will last a while. Meanwhile,….

2 find a solid 50“ axle with splines (24, I think) on both ends. Cut it to the right length, and get a local shop to cut threads onto the cut ends. Not sure if this will work, but it’s worth a few phone calls this week! Getting a shop to cut threads appears to be easier/cheaper than cutting splines.

3 if all else fails, start looking for a replacement f-n-r differential wide enough and strong enough to to place the Dana h12.

4 look into prices for a custom built axle

any other suggestions?

 

[Hellion]

I’ll be showing some ignorance here, but are you suggesting a specific kart? If so, which one? Or is this a generic picture and suggestion?

Oh sorry, I did mean it as a *generic off road fun kart*. That one is a Yerf Dog 3203 I think. They're not made anymore but they're out there.

Yerf-Dog Go-Kart #3203

 

[Master Hack]

2 find a solid 50“ axle with splines (24, I think)

Splines cut into and axle indicates hardened material. From my experience welding hardened material does not work.
I'm not a welder (But I play one on the internet) so my comment is based on my experience. Perhaps someone smarter than me can set me straight?

 

[Hellion]

You gotta see this through to the end, Papa. We're all rooting for you.

EDIT::::: plus you'll be serving the Manco Super Deuce community that has the same problems.

 

[Papanicko57]

Splines cut into and axle indicates hardened material. From my experience welding hardened material does not work.
I'm not a welder (But I play one on the internet) so my comment is based on my experience. Perhaps someone smarter than me can set me straight?

My experience matches yours - welding hardened material is hard . But some professional welders are able to do the pre-heating and slow cool down that’s required. I don’t know if there are any in my area, but my little MIG and I are not in that league!

 

[Kartorbust]

It takes practice. Most hardening only takes up the first few thousandths of the mental. Usually a 1050 carbon steel, rarely unless spec'd a 4130 or other chromoly steel alloy. You would have to taper both sides, keep them level, and slowly layer the welds and prevent it from warping.

I never got the opportunity in college to weld small diameter pipe, tubing. They were more concern with plate, sheet metal, and 8" schedule 40 pipe.

 

[Denny]

You can’t weld an axle! It will snap like glass.

 

[Kartorbust]

You can if you use the proper filler material and put a sleeve over it. Like standard ER70S mig wire, E7018 stick electrode, or an equivalent for TIG. Would require a pre heat of around 250-350⁰F and burying it sand to allow it to slow cool.

Would take a lot of practice before committing to it for the go kart.

 

[Whitetrashrocker]

Being i have a mill and an indexer I'd buy an axle and cut and spline it.

But if you can find a splined axle the threads would be easier to cut.

I wouldn't try welding it. To much tempering to deal with.

 

[Denny]

You can if you use the proper filler material and put a sleeve over it. Like standard ER70S mig wire, E7018 stick electrode, or an equivalent for TIG. Would require a pre heat of around 250-350⁰F and burying it sand to allow it to slow cool.

Would take a lot of practice before committing to it for the go kart.

That would still suck the hardness out of the axle. Even then it would still snap. Guys have tried to shorten axles by doing that for decades.

 

[panchothedog]

I’ll be showing some ignorance here, but are you suggesting a specific kart? If so, which one? Or is this a generic picture and suggestion?

That was kind of a suggestion as to what we're talking about when we say " get a couple of off road karts". That is a Yerf-Dog. Many models would qualify. Manco also made several models ( thousands of karts ) that would be very similar. You want large tires ( tall, not 10" racing kart style ), a torque converter, and suspension. No idea where you are located. Craigslist, Offer Up, and Face Book Marketplace are usually full of karts ( all kinds ) for sale.

 

[caseysct200u]

Thanks guys! I’ve poked around through the forums for advice. I don’t want to be the guy that jumps into a forum just to ask question! Here are some pictures as I’m working on it today. Pretty cool machine to me, but probably no big deal to many others. My current problem is sourcing the broken shaft. Everywhere I’ve checked is out of stock/obsolete item no longer available, even thought the website says it’s in stock. I’d really like to NOT replace the differential as I get started, but may need to do something. I’d surely appreciate any advice or experience.

looks sick man