New to the hobby- need help identifying

[JustLearning]

Hello everyone,
I’m brand new to go karts and want to get a go kart up and running. I got this frame from a buddy with the intention of restoring it. Just a little yard cart I can putt around in.
First off, i was curious if you guys could tell if this was a homemade kart or it had a brand/model.

Secondly, I am at the point where i want to get wheels/tires on it, but I'm having trouble understanding how the wheels will work with the rear axle.
The rear axle is not keyed, not threaded, and spins freely.
Is this a live axle? What kind of wheels would i put on an axle like this?
Third picture is the axle that came with it.

Sorry if this are dumb questions, I am brand new to all of this, but eager to learn and have some fun!

 

[pearl111]

The axle issue sounds strange, maybe I'm missing something.
Are you 100% sure that is the original ... axel?
What is the axle diameter, I'm thinking ..3/4".

 

[JustLearning]

Axle diameter is 5/8”.
That is the axle that was in there when i received the kart.
I can send more pics of things if it helps. The pic i attached is where the axle slides into.
Thank you for your reply!

 

[Hellion]

Could be this exact 3 H.P. "Sidekick" go kart (at the bottom middle) as sold by Western Auto from this 1983 catalog page....
Or the same kart several years prior or several years afterwards, sold under various other private label brands and whatever kart name they could come up with. We know Western Auto did not manufacture karts, they were just a retailer (I think, don't quote me on that). Sears probably sold this model as well.

It is a fun kart made by Phoenix Engineering, Inc., out of Freemont Nebraska. The butterfly steering wheel is a feature as is the steering shaft that went through the floor and the tie rod configuration.

Fairly certain it was one-wheel drive. We all know what restoring means but honestly I would just use it as a basis for another custom kart because that thing is pretty far gone.



https://thecabe.com/forum/media/1983-western-auto-wheel-goods-page-3.27043/

And looky here. We have another Rebel go kart in the ad. The Dukes of Hazzard was legit entertainment (only because of Barbara Bach ) at the time. That's three I know of:

Clark "The Rebel"
Phoenix "Rebel"
Ken-Bar S-465 "The Rebel"

 

[Hellion]

I think the axle is legit. These were pretty crude karts for the time period and the "axle drilled for a cotter pin" probably means the free-wheeling wheel on the rear axle was just held on with a cotter/split pin and a washer.

Saw a similar post (but no photos) on advrider forum talking about the axle. The description was the same as what you have.

What wheels and rims do you put on it? Well obviously the cheapest steelie rims you can find. I'd say 4.10/3.50-6" tires and four split-rim steelie wheels. You will go through tires on these karts and honestly, tis better to keep it as cheap as possible

 

[Hellion]

https://www.oldminibikes.com/forum/index.php?media/albums/phoenix-engineering-go-kart.2857/

 

[panchothedog]

Did you get the kart for free?

 

[pearl111]

Axle diameter is 5/8”.
That is the axle that was in there when i received the kart.
I can send more pics of things if it helps. The pic i attached is where the axle slides into.
Thank you for your reply!

I don't see a place for axle bearings. If there's a place for axle bearings, you might be able to get a 5/8' keyed axle.... but not sure.
I think someone cut the dead axle studs..... (like the front ones)....off. Meaning you need to weld the rear axles left & right back on.

That's what I would do, ......but maybe someone else will come up with something different.

 

[Hellion]

Did you get the kart for free?

LOL, he better have. Can you imagine paying any money for that piece of ....____.

I'm kidding, it IS an American made kart and made by a firm that I highly regard. Like Pearl111 said he doesn't see axle bearings and thinks someone cut off the "dead axle studs" (which are basically just fixed spindles like what are on the front) leading me to believe what I believe.

Doing it his way, welding on some axle studs on the rear, will get you back in the spirit of the original kart which have their own charm, especially with the unequal thrust. One wheel drive karts launch sideways, or act "squirrely" a little because only one wheel is powered and it's on one corner, but you can do donuts galore and turn tighter than a live axle kart technically speaking....

 

[JustLearning]

Could be this exact 3 H.P. "Sidekick" go kart (at the bottom middle) as sold by Western Auto from this 1983 catalog page....
Or the same kart several years prior or several years afterwards, sold under various other private label brands and whatever kart name they could come up with. We know Western Auto did not manufacture karts, they were just a retailer (I think, don't quote me on that). Sears probably sold this model as well.

It is a fun kart made by Phoenix Engineering, Inc., out of Freemont Nebraska. The butterfly steering wheel is a feature as is the steering shaft that went through the floor and the tie rod configuration.

Fairly certain it was one-wheel drive. We all know what restoring means but honestly I would just use it as a basis for another custom kart because that thing is pretty far gone.

View attachment 153191

https://thecabe.com/forum/media/1983-western-auto-wheel-goods-page-3.27043/

And looky here. We have another Rebel go kart in the ad. The Dukes of Hazzard was legit entertainment (only because of Barbara Bach ) at the time. That's three I know of:

Clark "The Rebel"
Phoenix "Rebel"
Ken-Bar S-465 "The Rebel"

Wow! Blown away by the response, Hellion. That definitely appears to be pretty close if not exactly what it is! You guys are incredibly knowledgeable over here. I knew i came to the right spot for answers to my questions!

LOL, he better have. Can you imagine paying any money for that piece of ....____.

LOL, yes i did get it for free.

I'm kidding, it IS an American made kart and made by a firm that I highly regard. Like Pearl111 said he doesn't see axle bearings and thinks someone cut off the "dead axle studs" (which are basically just fixed spindles like what are on the front) leading me to believe what I believe

My only problem with this, is the axle is measuring 36” long. If the studs were trimmed off, that would make it muuuuccchhh longer, and would stick out too far from the frame.

Either way, i really appreciate all of the knowledge and information provided!
The stubbornness in me really wants to reuse the axle that came with it, but i can’t seem to wrap my head around how a wheel getting power from the engine will spin without the entire back axle spinning too.

 

[Hellion]

My only problem with this, is the axle is measuring 36” long. If the studs were trimmed off, that would make it muuuuccchhh longer, and would stick out too far from the frame.

I didn't really look at the rear axle closely but according to the catalog page I posted, the width is 36" (length 63", you could verify that and basically have a positive ID). So looking at your frame, the rear "axle" is simply a hollow tube welded to the frame right? And the rod in your third photo appears to me like it was inserted into the hollow tube, evenly spaced and "pinched" on the ends to hold it in place?

Is the hollow axle tube narrower than 36"?

 

[Hellion]

For reference only, you will need a wheel and sprocket assembly, something like this:
https://gokartsusa.com/gokart-sprocket-drum-brake-1.aspx

Search around and see if you can get it piece by piece or cheaper than that, or find it on Fleabay/Scamazon, but that assembly would get you the wheel(s), tire, tube, sprocket and the band-brake and drum, which is miles better than the original scrub brakes, which appears that only one "shoe" remains.

Also did you see the oldminibikes link I posted above, with the Phoenix kart? Looks like it had a hand brake on the right side just like on the old Big Wheels....

Wipe-out!

 

[JustLearning]

I didn't really look at the rear axle closely but according to the catalog page I posted, the width is 36" (length 63", you could verify that and basically have a positive ID). So looking at your frame, the rear "axle" is simply a hollow tube welded to the frame right? And the rod in your third photo appears to me like it was inserted into the hollow tube, evenly spaced and "pinched" on the ends to hold it in place?

Wow, once again, thoroughly impressed by you guys! That makes a lot of sense, that it was "pinched" to hold the rod in place!

Is the hollow axle tube narrower than 36"?

Yes! It is roughly 27", so that should leave me about 9"combined of the rod sticking out. Should be plenty enough space for wheels and sprocket assembly.

For reference only, you will need a wheel and sprocket assembly, something like this:
https://gokartsusa.com/gokart-sprocket-drum-brake-1.aspx

Search around and see if you can get it piece by piece or cheaper than that, or find it on Fleabay/Scamazon, but that assembly would get you the wheel(s), tire, tube, sprocket and the band-brake and drum, which is miles better than the original scrub brakes, which appears that only one "shoe" remains.

Incredible! That definitely puts me on the right track to getting this dude running. Thank you again so much for your insight and knowledge! You guys have been a huge help!!

Also did you see the oldminibikes link I posted above, with the Phoenix kart? Looks like it had a hand brake on the right side just like on the old Big Wheels....
View attachment 153273
Wipe-out!

I did! That's pretty rad! lol Looks like it works off of the same rod that applies the shoe brake to the tire.

 

[Hellion]

I assume the front axles are 5/8" OD too?
Here's some "floater" wheels with 5/8" ID bearings, about the lowest cost I have seen $18.99:

6" x 3-1/4" Floater Wheel with Hub Split Steel Rim | 5/8" Bearing​

https://www.bmikarts.com/6-x-3-14-Floater-Wheel-with-Hub_p_11974.html

They have a little storage rust on them, so they're perfect (chef's kiss).

Reminder to self: I need to find a use for these blue 4" Azusa nylon/zytel rims... https://www.bmikarts.com/4-x-3-Azusalite-Floater-Wheel_p_10845.html

Incredible! That definitely puts me on the right track to getting this dude running. Thank you again so much for your insight and knowledge! You guys have been a huge help!!

What are you going to power it with? Some fruity gay electric motor or the good old fashioned *suck-squeeze-bang-blow* (4 cycle) engine?
I'd say to get a ..... *drum roll* ...... Predator 6.5HP 212cc, just the basic engine and buy it when it's on sale (usually $99.99).
Check the Memorial Days sales (next Monday).

Otherwise there's no end to the used engines available on those free sell-your-junk sites. . . .

 

[JustLearning]

I assume the front axles are 5/8" OD too?

Yes, they sure are!

Here's some "floater" wheels with 5/8" ID bearings, about the lowest cost I have seen $18.99:

6" x 3-1/4" Floater Wheel with Hub Split Steel Rim | 5/8" Bearing​

https://www.bmikarts.com/6-x-3-14-Floater-Wheel-with-Hub_p_11974.html

They have a little storage rust on them, so they're perfect (chef's kiss).

Fantastic, thank you!! I'll check those out!

What are you going to power it with? Some fruity gay electric motor

Heeeeelllll nah!!

or the good old fashioned *suck-squeeze-bang-blow* (4 cycle) engine?
I'd say to get a ..... *drum roll* ...... Predator 6.5HP 212cc, just the basic engine and buy it when it's on sale (usually $99.99).
Check the Memorial Days sales (next Monday).

Otherwise there's no end to the used engines available on those free sell-your-junk sites. . . .

I've been eyeing the Predator 6.5HP 212cc, but I've also been thinking about challenging myself and find a used engine or even get a used piece of outdoor power equipment and try to make it work! Predator 212cc is obviously going to be an easier bolt on solution. Memorial day sale is a good call, though!
Not sure which direction I'll go yet.

 

[Hellion]

...but I've also been thinking about challenging myself and find a used engine or even get a used piece of outdoor power equipment and try to make it work!

I like the challenge idea. I wasn't sure of your skill level but using an older a 3 to 5 horsepower flathead Briggs & Stratton (very common engine) would be ideal. The catalog page says it's a "4- stroke, recoil start Tecumseh engine" but it clearly has a Briggs, so a Briggs is period-correct of course.

I don't really "like" modern OHV clone engines. The aesthetic is wrong for old go karts.

 

[Master Hack]

like the challenge idea

Thats more than a challenge! I would be calling the scrap dealer!
I wish you luck!

 

[JustLearning]

I like the challenge idea. I wasn't sure of your skill level but using an older a 3 to 5 horsepower flathead Briggs & Stratton (very common engine) would be ideal. The catalog page says it's a "4- stroke, recoil start Tecumseh engine" but it clearly has a Briggs, so a Briggs is period-correct of course.

I don't really "like" modern OHV clone engines. The aesthetic is wrong for old go karts.

We'll see where it goes!! I want to keep things period correct and re-use anything I can.

Thats more than a challenge! I would be calling the scrap dealer!
I wish you luck!

lol nahhhhh I think we can get her running again. It may not be perfect, but it'll be fun!

 

[Functional Artist]

Some fruity gay electric motor

Um...fruity...gay...electric motor???

Huh...Huh...she said DUDE!

 

[panchothedog]

Unless you're a gluten for punishment stay away from the outdoor power equipment. Many have a tapered shaft and are only compatible with whatever they were powering, and you'll never get a clutch to fit. The predator certainly is not period correct, but the rest of your kart might not end up that way either. For the money, you are getting a brand new, trouble free, garunteed engine. I own several of them, and while I'm not a fan of buying Chinese crap, most of the products in the go kart world come from there. Tough dependable little power plant. Aside from looking funny ( though I don't think so ) you really can't go wrong. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.