Carter Talon engine swap

[sulak]

Hi, my kids have a Carter Talon with a gy6. It's bogging down, maybe tops out at 5-10 mph. I've replaced all the electronics, carb, variator, fuel "pump," fuel lines, battery, and clutch. So it's looking to me like an engine problem. BDX sells a replacement for $650 plus shipping, but eBay has GY6 engines for about $300 shipped.

Anyone has experience with the ebay engines? Would I be paying $650+ for basically the same engine at BDX? I already bought another go-kart on craigslist in frustration. I now think I'm gonna sell the Talon once it's running right, so I don't care about performance parts. Just want it to move 30 mph again.

 

[Master Hack]

About the last thing ya wanna do is throw money at it like that.
Apparantly it used to run faster? What happened to change that?
l can think of at least 6 things to check (that you did not mention) B4 l would throw more money at it.
Our highly skilled diagnostic and advisory counselors can help you, but more detailed info is required

 

[sulak]

About the last thing ya wanna do is throw money at it like that.
Apparantly it used to run faster? What happened to change that?
l can think of at least 6 things to check (that you did not mention) B4 l would throw more money at it.
Our highly skilled diagnostic and advisory counselors can help you, but more detailed info is required

Yes, it's always been a lot faster. I'd say about 30 mph, but that's only a guess. It's always been tough to start but ran well once warmed up. It takes longer to get it started now, but again, it idles nice once started

Best as I can remember, I think the kids were driving it rough when it stopped going, and they had broken the air filter box. Looked it over, and the little manifold between the carb and engine was loose and missing a nut, letting air bypass the filter. New nut, tightened up the carb, but couldn't get it to start. Didn't matter though because then I saw pieces of the drive belt hanging out of the cvt cover. It was a mess in there when I opened it up. That's when I ordered new variator, carb, and gates belt. Started up nice now, but still bogged down, no power. Thought maybe a bad cdi, so ordered and replaced cdi, rectifier, plug, plug cable, and I think one other electric part I don't remember the name of. I think there's some kind of electric choke in that chain too that got replaced, maybe part of the plug cable. After that, same issue. Decided maybe it was a fuel issue, so replaced the little vacuum fuel petcock and fuel/vacuum lines. Same issue. So that's what led me to say time for a new engine.

 

[Master Hack]

Wow! Throwing parts at it gets expensive and rarely works.
If yer troubleshooting an engine that suddenly is not running right after ya done something, that something is most likely the cause.
Stumbling, hesitating, etc are most often a fuel/air delivery problems.
an engine need air/fuel/conpression/spark all in the right order and at the right time.
Modern engines are mechanically purdy reliable. When they arn't it is obvious.
modern electronics are purdy reliable
Modern chinese carbs are crap.
look closely at yer air/ delivery system.
put the old carb back on and see what happens.
then maybe you should check the throttle adjustment.
and service that CVT

 

[sulak]

Wow! Throwing parts at it gets expensive and rarely works.
If yer troubleshooting an engine that suddenly is not running right after ya done something, that something is most likely the cause.
Stumbling, hesitating, etc are most often a fuel/air delivery problems.
an engine need air/fuel/conpression/spark all in the right order and at the right time.
Modern engines are mechanically purdy reliable. When they arn't it is obvious.
modern electronics are purdy reliable
Modern chinese carbs are crap.
look closely at yer air/ delivery system.
put the old carb back on and see what happens.
then maybe you should check the throttle adjustment.
and service that CVT

Thanks for the tips. Yes, throttle adjustment was one of the early things I looked at. No stumbling or hesitation, actually sounds nice idling and revs nice, just no power. I don't know much about these transmissions: when I was a kid, my carts were a small motor with a rotary clutch - Manco! I saw a nice-looking 212cc predator at harbor freight today and was wondering if I should get the welder out and make it fit. These CVTs are new to me, I don't know how to service it aside from cleaning or replacing the entire thing, which I already did. Agreed that throwing parts at it gets expensive, but if everything is replaced, it should work, right? The motor itself is the last piece, and it's only $300 IF the eBay ones are ok. You don't even wanna know what I paid for the dang used go kart I bought on Craigslist. Ouch! But it runs.

I do understand about the cheap Chinese carbs. But alternatives I've seen are like $200, almost the cost of the new engine. The one I replaced was Chinese crap too. I probably did not keep it. Sounds like you think I should try another carb, do have a recommendation for a decent one less than a hundo?

 

[Master Hack]

Have you tried it with a new belt?
maybe thebelt is the problem? Slipping?
there is a certain belt you should use, Denny knows what it is.
if the engine goes full throttle and the machine doesn't go, ya should be able to walk/run/bycycle along side and see the prolem..

my guess:
carb
belt slipping/cvt problem
all the above

 

[sulak]

Have you tried it with a new belt?
maybe thebelt is the problem? Slipping?
there is a certain belt you should use, Denny knows what it is.
if the engine goes full throttle and the machine doesn't go, ya should be able to walk/run/bycycle along side and see the prolem..

my guess:
carb
belt slipping/cvt problem
all the above

Yes, it's a new gates powerlink. I'll get back into it this weekend and go through the cvt again, thanks.

 

[Edwin Spangler]

Maybe CVT isnt engaging fully?

 

[ezcome-ezgo]

Perhaps the manifold between the carb and engine is cracked or damaged. That's a thing.

 

[sulak]

Maybe CVT isnt engaging fully?

Yes, good possibility, any idea how to confirm?

 

[sulak]

Perhaps the manifold between the carb and engine is cracked or damaged. That's a thing.

That's been replaced, that was definitely loose initially and letting in air because one of the two nuts was missing

 

[Master Hack]

Yes, good possibility, any idea how to confirm

New gaskets?
Start it up, spay some starting fluid is the area and see if anything changes.

 

[Edwin Spangler]

Yes, good possibility, any idea how to confirm?

Raise the drive wheels off the ground and watch it manipulate with different engine speeds. Just watch videos of how its supposed to behave and compare with yours.

Also, remove the belt and do the same. See if there is any difference.

Aside from that, I would remove the whole driver, disassemble, and clean/dry lube it all. Check for uneven wear, all that.

Pictures and videos off all this could have a definitive answer much quicker, however.

 

[CartMan007]

Shot in the dark (because I've never worked with this engine type) but when my engine was bogging and tough to start, it was a compression issue. I reset/adjusted the valve lashes and that solved the problem.

It's a quick thing to check (depending on what you have in front of the valve cover) and you'll need feeler gauge but could be worth a look.

A video if you need it

 

[Karttekk]

What about an exhaust restriction? Maybe disconnect the muffler from the engine & run it on jackstands briefly to see if that changes anything. Check for rodent nests in the air filter box. Check for any sticking brake calipers. If the variator rollers are flattened they won't roll out properly. Weak or cracked vacuum hoses getting sucked in and restricting vacuum. Binding wheel bearings.

 

[sulak]

What about an exhaust restriction? Maybe disconnect the muffler from the engine & run it on jackstands briefly to see if that changes anything. Check for rodent nests in the air filter box. Check for any sticking brake calipers. If the variator rollers are flattened they won't roll out properly. Weak or cracked vacuum hoses getting sucked in and restricting vacuum. Binding wheel bearings.

I've run it with the muffler off, but same issue. I have not pulled the exhaust manifold, so it possible there's a restriction further upstream. Kinda tough to get at, but maybe I'll try this, thanks.
Air-filter box is good. Good idea about checking the brakes, hadn't thought of that. Entire variator was already replaced, and it came with new rollers, so it's not flat rollers.

 

[sulak]

Shot in the dark (because I've never worked with this engine type) but when my engine was bogging and tough to start, it was a compression issue. I reset/adjusted the valve lashes and that solved the problem.

It's a quick thing to check (depending on what you have in front of the valve cover) and you'll need feeler gauge but could be worth a look.

A video if you need it

I'll check out the video, thanks. I'd rather buy a cheap $300 engine though over pulling it apart I seriously don't want to mess with this anymore, I just want it running. I have logs to mill and don't have time to fiddle with this much. I really just want to know if the $300 eBay engines are ok, lol. I've got so many repair suggestions though that now I have to try all this stuff this weekend. I'm drawing the line at engine repair: my time is worth more than the new-engine cost. The new engines come set up with new CVT and a chinese carb, so going that route eliminates a lot of the possible failures.

 

[sulak]

Raise the drive wheels off the ground and watch it manipulate with different engine speeds. Just watch videos of how its supposed to behave and compare with yours.

Also, remove the belt and do the same. See if there is any difference.

Aside from that, I would remove the whole driver, disassemble, and clean/dry lube it all. Check for uneven wear, all that.

Pictures and videos off all this could have a definitive answer much quicker, however.

Entire CVT is brand new. I did not lubricate it when I installed it - I figured that would make the belt slip. I have a can of dry spray lube for my saws that I can spray on the clutch and variator though if they're supposed to be lubed.

 

[sulak]

Raise the drive wheels off the ground and watch it manipulate with different engine speeds. Just watch videos of how its supposed to behave and compare with yours.

Also, remove the belt and do the same. See if there is any difference.

Aside from that, I would remove the whole driver, disassemble, and clean/dry lube it all. Check for uneven wear, all that.

Pictures and videos off all this could have a definitive answer much quicker, however.

I like this suggestion, I will try this and see if the variator pushes the belt out with no load (wheels raised).

 

[sulak]

Raise the drive wheels off the ground and watch it manipulate with different engine speeds. Just watch videos of how its supposed to behave and compare with yours.

Also, remove the belt and do the same. See if there is any difference.

Aside from that, I would remove the whole driver, disassemble, and clean/dry lube it all. Check for uneven wear, all that.

Pictures and videos off all this could have a definitive answer much quicker, however.

Pulled off the muffler, CVT cover, and airbox. Tried to get different angles of the cvt while revving.