Slight ticking? Fully built stage 4 predator 224.

RefAlpha

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Recently started my very first go kart build got a donor frame and bought a stock 224 predator. I believe I followed every step to the t but we all make mistakes.

So I was doing some first runs etc. On the engine and in the beginning I didn't hear much of anything to be worried about. However once I changed my fuel from 87 to 93 for more compression I heard a slight ticking coming from either the piston or the valve cover. Personally I belive it is the spark plug making slight contact with the piston however I'd love to get some opinions on the matter.

Hear the ticking via Youtube. 20231204_025627.jpg
 

Rat

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I'd suspect it's normal since you've indicated the engine is new, and probably not fully broken in just yet.
You can expect to develop some slight starting and performance issues as well as possibly an extremely minor oil leaks.

When an engine is breaking in you can expect to retighten all the bolts and resetting the valve lash a few times before it all comes to rest from thermal expansion doing what it does (crushing gaskets and faintly stretching bolts)

Spark plugs don't just randomly start hitting the piston because you changed fuel... that's physically impossible. If you had a head milled to max and removed the head gasket, only that would be enough to get contact with the electrode but it would likely stop running after a few taps having the gap mashed shut or nearly shut.

FWIW: higher octane fuel is useless overpriced garbage fuel that will make a "normal" engine not run as well since its harder to ignite. Higher octane fuel requires higher compression to ignite properly than the typical 8:1/9:1 most of these engine have stock and it does also burn hotter.

It's more likely that if lash isn't the issue you're having an issue with incomplete combustion due to the nature of the higher octane fuel.

I will admit that if you can get your hands on 90/0 or 91/0 gas (NO ETHANOL) it is WAY better than running the common 87/10 or 87/15 pump gas and doesn't have the issue of being harder to burn in a less than dully performance tuned engine like 93/10 or 93/15 common pump gas does.
 

RefAlpha

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I'd suspect it's normal since you've indicated the engine is new, and probably not fully broken in just yet.
You can expect to develop some slight starting and performance issues as well as possibly an extremely minor oil leaks.

When an engine is breaking in you can expect to retighten all the bolts and resetting the valve lash a few times before it all comes to rest from thermal expansion doing what it does (crushing gaskets and faintly stretching bolts)

Spark plugs don't just randomly start hitting the piston because you changed fuel... that's physically impossible. If you had a head milled to max and removed the head gasket, only that would be enough to get contact with the electrode but it would likely stop running after a few taps having the gap mashed shut or nearly shut.

FWIW: higher octane fuel is useless overpriced garbage fuel that will make a "normal" engine not run as well since its harder to ignite. Higher octane fuel requires higher compression to ignite properly than the typical 8:1/9:1 most of these engine have stock and it does also burn hotter.

It's more likely that if lash isn't the issue you're having an issue with incomplete combustion due to the nature of the higher octane fuel.

I will admit that if you can get your hands on 90/0 or 91/0 gas (NO ETHANOL) it is WAY better than running the common 87/10 or 87/15 pump gas and doesn't have the issue of being harder to burn in a less than dully performance tuned engine like 93/10 or 93/15 common pump gas does.
I'll reset the lash to .03 cold and would it help if I checked warm as well? Also what would be the best way to get 90/0 or 91/0?
 

RefAlpha

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I'd suspect it's normal since you've indicated the engine is new, and probably not fully broken in just yet.
You can expect to develop some slight starting and performance issues as well as possibly an extremely minor oil leaks.

When an engine is breaking in you can expect to retighten all the bolts and resetting the valve lash a few times before it all comes to rest from thermal expansion doing what it does (crushing gaskets and faintly stretching bolts)

Spark plugs don't just randomly start hitting the piston because you changed fuel... that's physically impossible. If you had a head milled to max and removed the head gasket, only that would be enough to get contact with the electrode but it would likely stop running after a few taps having the gap mashed shut or nearly shut.

FWIW: higher octane fuel is useless overpriced garbage fuel that will make a "normal" engine not run as well since its harder to ignite. Higher octane fuel requires higher compression to ignite properly than the typical 8:1/9:1 most of these engine have stock and it does also burn hotter.

It's more likely that if lash isn't the issue you're having an issue with incomplete combustion due to the nature of the higher octane fuel.

I will admit that if you can get your hands on 90/0 or 91/0 gas (NO ETHANOL) it is WAY better than running the common 87/10 or 87/15 pump gas and doesn't have the issue of being harder to burn in a less than dully performance tuned engine like 93/10 or 93/15 common pump gas does.
Also what if I jet my carb larger and run e85 would that be a good alternative?
 

Rat

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First, stop double posting, you're going to annoy @Denny and we dont want that cranky old fart annoyed before he's had his morning coffee.
I'll reset the lash to .03 cold and would it help if I checked warm as well? Also what would be the best way to get 90/0 or 91/0?

No, Static lash is checked cold and set cold to the manufacturers specifications, for a stock engine
(specially stock cams and/or rockers, or someone with little to no actual build experience)

Cold setting them to 0.0 makes the engine a little more cold ambient sensetive during start up, but once the engine starts and begins to warm it operates normally. This is simply because aluminum (the head) and steel (everything else in the head) have different thermal expansion rates and amounts.

An engine at peak operating temp can show as much as 0.03" lash gap change from cold lash, so setting the lash so it has only enough wiggle to know its not holding the valve open means you end up with the correct lash (or within the +/- tolerance range) when you need it to be right.

Ethanol free gas is easiest to find in three general places...

Near Marinas because ethanol binds with water more than it does the gas it is added to... nobody puts that sh!t in a boat.

Near airfields and smaller airports because of the water again, but also another reason I suddenly don't remember... possibly something about fuel temperature at altitude idk.

The third is highly agricultural areas, because ethanol enriched fuel only has a stable shelf life of about 30 days in storage after it leaves the pump into a container. You just don't want ethanol in something that you need to be reliable but only need it 3 or 4 months of the year. It clogs carburetor passages and eats up brass (which both apply to fuel injector nozzles as well)

Products like Stabil help, but they don't fix the issue that 30 and 40 year old gasoline just doesn't have. I have seen cars that sat in a field somewhere up to their rockers in the dirt from sitting for 10,20, 30, even 50 years start and run fine after the rodents are evicted, a good battery was dropped in, and a little fiddling to wake the beast up. You just wont get ethanol fuels to run worth a damn past a year, I know I said 30 days of stability... there are things other than more additives that can extend the shelf life if ethanol gas but it's still on borrowed time compared to good Ole pure Dino juice
Also what if I jet my carb larger and run e85 would that be a good alternative?
No it would not be

Jetting is best based on plug color and throttle responsiveness. There are those more experienced than I that don't even need the plug color, just a quick whiff if the exhaust fumes and how the engine sounds and they just know. Ive been at that point for several years, but I still prefer to confirm by the plug color.

If the plug is dark, and you have a particular "flat spot" in the throttle range... it's safe to say ruat flat spot is a flood zone; lean if the plug is a pale grey like ashes.

These engines do have some valvetrain chatter, especially as things wear in and seat, it's just an inevitability of OHV rockerboxes.

What you need to consider is this "issue" came with a fuel grade change... easy to test theory if it is in fact directly fuel related without having the engine apart poking it cluelessly is just to run it to near empty or drain the tank and put the previous grade gas in it.

Less tap you know it's fuel related

Unchanged, you know it's not and can check other easy to rule out things.

Opening up the engine should always be the last resort of diagnostic method unless you know for sure something inside is wrong.
 
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Denny

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It’s ticking like a time bomb getting ready to explode! No, I’m just kidding. A slight ticking is normal because of valve lash. I agree with everything RLS said except for double posts. It’s double threads that are against the rules and aggravate me!
 

Rat

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BTW "Stage" kits are an overpriced joke aimed at newbs and other less than fully competent individuals looking for go fast parts.

The best upgrades are ones hand selected individually to work together for a common goal, and the first two should near always be stiffer valve springs and a Dover coil. Stage kits tend to include gimmicks, and not include what you really need.
 

bob58o

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Last time I took apart a predator engine that was ticking I found out the bottom of the cylinder was not tapered properly and my piston was scraping the the bottom of the cylinder.

You’re lucky you got Denny. Y’all don’t remember Doug. Doug would get banned on the weekly. The good ole days with PoBoy shouting from his Texas porch, “Get off my forum!” then returning indoors to see if his tires were done baking in the oven.

Double posts don’t bother me. I only look in a few sections and only read 5% of what’s inside.
 
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