Predator 212 to 420 swapout footprint, both ways...........

[madprofessor]

Decision made, money deposited. Going to snatch the 15+ hp. 212 from SchizoBallz and plant it in the new BareBallz build, dropping a stock 420 in where the 212 had been. Without me researching HF website, measuring stuff, etc., how's the footprint for the old 212 going to match up with the new footprint for the 420? It was all custom made anyway, doesn't have to match any factory parts, just trying to plan for extra steel stock.

 

[redflash]

The mounting bolt pattern does not match the 212, they will give you a template with the motor.

Da redflash

 

[karl]

Hope this helps visualize it. I would not worry about the motor so much as the torque converter.

The 30 series is not gonna like the 18.4 ft/lbs of the 420cc, nearly twice what the 212 puts out.
And the 40 series setup is quite a bit bigger that the 30, I think this is where your going to run into issues.

 

[Denny]

In my best Covid voice, listen to Karl he is wise beyond his years.

 

[panchothedog]

MAD
From the pictures I have seen of your kart I think you will have room for the larger engine and the 40 series. Might have to raise or cut something, but someone with your talent will BREEZE through this. VERY glad to hear you are stepping up to enough power where you can have some fun with that thing.

 

[Denny]

Mad, from the pictures I have seen of your kart you could park an aircraft carrier back there and no one would notice!

 

[madprofessor]

Karl, thank you very much for the great comparison pics and diagrams, so much better info than I'd even hoped for. Thank you, everyone, for your input. I've been on this forum long enough to know (1) to ask questions, (2) to listen carefully to the answers, and (3) to take all of it in as the voices of experience, knowledge, and creativity.

40 series setup is quite a bit bigger that the 30, I think this is where your going to run into issues.

I can envision that now, and I understand now that (even without a tape measure), I need to cut the entire existing mounting steel out of SchizoBallz and start from scratch. Question: Does the 420 have the same ability as the 212 to allow the 40 series TC to be mounted in any direction? I've done backward w/slight downward angle on DragginBallz, and now straight down currently, but those are the 30 series.
NOTE: Planning to do on BareBallz what I'd hoped for on current build, that's to mount a short kick or short pull lever via ratio pulleys to pull the pullrope while still sitting in the seat, no having to get out and crank it every time it dies or gets shut down via slapswitch. (No electric start for PVL billet flywheels.)

 

[JustBeginning0124]

Decision made, money deposited. Going to snatch the 15+ hp. 212 from SchizoBallz and plant it in the new BareBallz build, dropping a stock 420 in where the 212 had been. Without me researching HF website, measuring stuff, etc., how's the footprint for the old 212 going to match up with the new footprint for the 420? It was all custom made anyway, doesn't have to match any factory parts, just trying to plan for extra steel stock.

Is it just the regular 212? I know them ghost 212s can push 19hp at stage 3 and the size may be a little bit bigger but nothing like that 420

 

[karl]

Question: Does the 420 have the same ability as the 212 to allow the 40 series TC to be mounted in any direction?

Most of the backplates only have one set of holes drilled in them. But I don't see any reason why
clocking it another direction would cause issues. Just make a cardboard template by tracing and cutting out the 4 bolt holes and center,
turn it to your needs, center punch and drill new holes.

The pull rope thing sounds cool!

Is it just the regular 212? I know them ghost 212s can push 19hp at stage 3 and the size may be a little bit bigger but nothing like that 420

That's what hes getting away from. The built small blocks are great for going fast on light karts and minibikes,
but don't have the torque needed to pull heavy buggys around.

Your much better off buying the 8hp predator 301cc than the 212cc ghost if your moving a heavy kart.
And the 301cc is $30 cheaper than the ghost engine right now.

 

[panchothedog]

MAD
You can clock ( turn ) the 40 series to any one of 4 positions. With one set of holes it will be in 90 degree incriments.

 

[karl]

MAD
You can clock ( turn ) the 40 series to any one of 4 positions. With one set of holes it will be in 90 degree incriments.

I thought that was self explanatory , but yeah totally. But I do not think any of those 4 positions will be ideal for his
application, so I advised on how to mount it at any angle he needs it to be.

 

[madprofessor]

I'm a bit more confused now about the multiple hole sets in the backplate of a 30 series TC, but have only considered a backplate for a 40 series to keep options available. Thought all along that a backplate would just be an addendum that separates everything the most completely, not even using the built-in jackshaft on the backplate. I think I should just toss that idea, buy the driver and driven and a Comet belt as separate parts to feed a new custom jackshaft I can build off of the motor rack, and from there on down to my midshaft as it sits.

 

[madprofessor]

Went looking for a sale price or coupon or etc. for the new 420. Suddenly realized they come as hemi and non-hemi. Haven't looked yet for stage 1 parts (breather w/adapter, low and main jets, header with hotdog muffler), so help me out. Which version has the best availability of aftermarket parts? Getting the extended 1-year warranty, so not planning to crack the case for warranty reasons, will sell it with warranty still in effect. So for staging up the power from outside the case only, hemi or non-hemi?
Different question about the 420: Far as I know, there will be a battery for starting that I have to buy separately. What kind of voltage is required, and what's a dependable amount of hour rating to be sure it can spin the motor for an extended time if problems arise with cranking it up? ............... and is the factory charging coil strong enough to run some headlights with a strong battery?

 

[panchothedog]

MAD
As for stage one parts, air cleaner, carb jets, and pipe I don't think there is any difference between hemi and non hemi. Even on the small block 's the only parts that aren't interchangeable are the cam and flywheel. BTW if you leave the govoner in, don't expect much of a performance boost even with stage one parts. Nothing really starts happening horse power wise until you spin these things. Although I am sure you will get a BIG boost from the 420 right out of the box. Torque is what pushes you back in your seat, and the 420 has more of that then even a hopped up 212.

 

[madprofessor]

Thanks for the insight, Pancho. That may be a little disappointing about no appreciable gain, but it's equally a bonus. Means no more money has to be spent for performance, and that's the best news at this time. Spending money steadily for stuff to protect my new 2017 Rav4 I got last Saturday. Side wind/rain deflectors, windshield shade, mud flaps, seat covers, floor mats, etc.

 

[panchothedog]

Sounds like things are going well for you. Glad to hear. Keep us informed on the engine swap,and. MERRY CHRISTMAS.

 

[Denny]

What do you mean about no appreciable gain? Just by bolting the engine on your tripling your horsepower and more than doubling your torque!

 

[madprofessor]

tripling your horsepower and more than doubling your torque!

Tripling sounds great, and no doubt it'll feel like that. I was only thinking about some minimal investment gains on the 420 over stock, since I've no experience with them. Certainly a better idea to take it as it comes out of the box, and see if it's enough. Better be enough, planning to sell it as soon as I can top off the build, get my shop space back again for the next build.