Best knock off 30 series Torque Converter

[KickingRocks]

I'm in the process of re powering a Manco Dingo with a predator 212 and was just wondering what the best knock off Torque Converter is. When I look on Amazon they all basically look the same, but prices vary from $60 to $120. This is my first go cart so just wondering if one knock off is better than the other. Thanks for the help. Also after reading countless reviews I know I'll have to get the right bolts to fit the predator engine as it seems none of the cheap kits come with the right bolts. No biggie!!!

 

[landuse]

All the knock offs are the same. I would go for the $60 one, as that is generally what people round here pay for knock offs. Just make sure to get a genuine comet belt, as the ones that come with the chinese knock offs don't last too long

 

[J.S.@SMS]

Yeah, get a comet belt to have on hand when the chinese one wears out. Although the one on my kart made it about 7 months before showing too much wear. Depends on how often you ride, and where you ride. For the bolts, I use four 1 1/4" long 5/16-24 bolts for the backplate, and I think a 2 1/2" long 5/16-24 bolt for the driver. Might be a 3". One thing I found with the cheaper units is that sometimes you'll get one with more play/slop in the driver's clover hub than normal. It doesn't mess with the overall function, it just makes a sound that reminds me of rod knock. But as soon as you get going, and there's power going through it, the knocking stops.

 

[gegcorp2012]

Be sure to check the specs for the kit you are considering. A heavy rider may benefit from having a 7" driven clutch, and you can get kits with the 6" or 7" driven clutch. I was checking on this and noticed the kits with the 7" driven clutch are generally higher.

Care to guess what I want for Christmas ?

BTW, if you rushed in and bought the cheapest one (like I did) you can order just the driven clutch, but then you'll need the larger belt too.

Sent from my SM-J700T using Tapatalk

 

[KartFab]

There is a big difference in quality between knock offs. I can tell you that the $120 ones do have higher quality. The $60 have weaker springs, wear tabs, and can break easier when you exceed the horsepower rating.

 

[J.S.@SMS]

Yeah, typically the $60 ones have looser machining standards. But I have had problems with one of the $120 ones' bushings that the belt rides on. I've had them lock up the TC twice (one chinese, one old comet) on my minibike. Long story short, i had to take apart the driver so I could push it home, because the tc was still engaged and trying to turn the engine. Also the same $120 TC is the one that keeps making me think I have rod knock, from the play in the clover hup.

 

[Joe-405]

I’m using the one from BMI karts and its a few years old........still the same belt ! With 10+hp modded bsp engine.

 

[KartFab]

So i was at gopowersports on saturday and got the chance to see one of their prototype 30 series drive units. Its pretty cool. Long story short, its like a mini 780 series that uses the 30 series driven. Ive had my fair share of issues with the 30 series drive units lockign up, and its usually wear and/or lubrication related. This one has been able to rev up to 8500 rpm with no issues in the 1/8th mile. Should be a game changer for sure.

 

[ForceFed86]

What is done that allows the juggernaut unit to hold so much more power and rev higher? I was told it still used the asymmetrical belt. I was assuming you'd need a "v" belt to hold more power and was curious about trying to make something that would use a V belt on the cheap TAV-30 series units.

 

[ForceFed86]

Why does no one mention the cheap 20 series units? They have the bevel on both sides. Which we can assume will hold roughly twice the power the 30 would?

I picked up a set of driven and driver pulleys to try on the 60$ TAV 30 series kit. $31.50 for the driver, 29.95 for driven. Thats shipped as well. Going to try them anyway. They have not arrived yet.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/GO-KART-MI...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

https://www.ebay.com/itm/20-SERIES-...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

 

[karl]

Why does no one mention the cheap 20 series units? They have the bevel on both sides. Which we can assume will hold roughly twice the power the 30 would?

Because go power sports cant make money off you then! lol

Makes sense to just use a superior design , Instead of trying to re-enginner an existing product , I can understand why using a 20 series will reduce belt slip, but with the juggerwho , clamping the same asymmetrical belt tighter will cause the clutch to upshift faster, no? So what makes it slip less? The only advantage is higher rpm handling? On a torquey build, or medium frame engine, the 20 series seems like the superior choice.

My guess is they are marketing to folks with lots of spare cash, and want bolt on solutions with little effort , backplates.

 

[Flyinhillbilly]

I’m definitely following this thread as I’m about to put a pretty hot motor on a dingo with a 30 series. I’ll be way beyond it’s power rating and hoping for the best.

 

[KartFab]

I have always been a fan of the 20 series. The 30 and 20 series can only handle 8 hp. Anything above that and you’re basically left with a polar pro jr dragster $500+ torque converter, or regear and go with a race clutch. The juggernaut looks similar to the 780/Salisbury/other types of torque converters and is a very inexpensive option to still be able to run a 30 series in a hopped up motor, something you couldn’t do before this without being limited to 5k RPM. It wasn’t too long ago when the only options on the market were the $50 max torque centrifugal clutch, or the $250 30 series comet torque converters.

 

[karl]

30 series in a hopped up motor, something you couldn’t do before this without being limited to 5k RPM.

So the only advantage is the RPM ability, and maybe longer service life than a normal 30 series driver under the same operating conditions?

If the 30 series on its own can only handle 8hp, and your within the rpm spec of the stock 30 series, what will the juggernaut do to help the power handling?

or simply make a massive improvement to a stock engine. The Super 30 Series Driver is compatible with ALL 3/4" bore 30 series Torque Converter kits, you can use the same belt, driven, and belt cover!

- No more slipping under load.

- Has been tested up to 8500 rpm

Go power sports makes some claims , massive improvement to a stock engine, meaning under 5k. How? Only longevity? I can buy the entire 30 series tav2 setup for $60 and still have cash left over for a spare driver for the cost of a juggernaut

They also claim you use the regular belt, and driven unit, meaning the spring tension is the driven in not changed.

So the clutch is not gripping the belt any tighter , your are still limited by the inferior asymmetrical 3/4 belt

So how did they alleviate the belt slippage?

Only less slippage above 7k rpm? I do not see massive improvements going on . And if the driver is clamping tight , opening the driven quick, shooting up to high ratio fast, so what was the point?

I found a max torque lying outside rusted over, hit it with a wire wheel, $10 for a black 3100 spring , and ya got a solid clutch that can take 8500 rpm just fine, and not lose power to belt friction and slipping.

 

[Flyinhillbilly]

I have always been a fan of the 20 series. The 30 and 20 series can only handle 8 hp.

I’m going to be a solid 2.5-3 times that with 9000 rpm motor.
It’s probably going to be carnage, but I’m going to do it anyway.

 

[KartFab]

Karl, are you saying the 20 series will handle very high rpms? I’ve only messed with two of the
Before, and that was when I was flipping go karts.

Regardless, I’m not going to convince you one way or another, nor do I care to. All I know is that the new unit turned 8500 rpm on a motor That made the most HP on my dyno when I couldn’t break 5500 on a conventional 30 series.

If you really want a v belt like the juggernaut, look up the comet 340. Good luck getting a new one for $90.

 

[karl]

Karl, are you saying the 20 series will handle very high rpms?

Not at all.

I understand there is a market/need for this juggernaut clutch

Go power sports is advertising this clutch to provide superior performance to the regular 30 series driver , on a stock motor , indicating stock rotating speeds.

So people that do not need this clutch may be mislead into buying it.

This is where I have my issue.

My usage would be I have 5 engines with 3/4 pto, 8-10hp , 305- 358cc , with stock internals I would like to use someday. This fancy clutch would not be worth x3 the cost for me most likely. I would be better off going 20 series , or going 40. The cost of 40 series copys on ebay fell below $70 (driven and driver only)

I would still like to know if anyone can answer my questions about the new unit, perhaps I should contact gps?

How do you adjust the engagement speed ?

Go power sports retracted their statements on stock engines, I guess someone heard me lol

 

[ForceFed86]

I have always been a fan of the 20 series. The 30 and 20 series can only handle 8 hp. Anything above that and you’re basically left with a polar pro jr dragster $500+ torque converter, or regear and go with a race clutch. The juggernaut looks similar to the 780/Salisbury/other types of torque converters and is a very inexpensive option to still be able to run a 30 series in a hopped up motor, something you couldn’t do before this without being limited to 5k RPM. It wasn’t too long ago when the only options on the market were the $50 max torque centrifugal clutch, or the $250 30 series comet torque converters.

Thank you for the reply! Not much information out there on the cheaper converter performance aspect. FWIW I routinely saw 6500-6600 RPM on my 30 series this weekend. Its a mild build, doubt its more than 10 hp. 160 head, old 212, 22mm carb, exhaust, MOD2 cam and 34* timing. Lots of belt dust! First run is always the best. Heat and dust build up quick.

So what I don't get is why the 20 and 30 series would both be rated to 8hp? If the 30 can handle 8 with one side of the belt gripping the sheaves. Why is a belt gripping both sides not going to allow more power with less belt slippage? Is it the weights inside the unit? Would heavier fly weights in the driver grip the belt more tightly?

The 40 series unit weight a TON! More than my cast alum flywheel for sure. Not really meant for the 212. Or so I was told.

So what is it that provides the "grip" exactly. How can we modify it? Would heavier weights provide more force/grip at RPM? It's the only real difference I see on the 40 series aside from the V-belt.

Theres alot of talk about big RPM here. Yet when you go to the drag strip and listen to the JR dragsters with theri $1000+ clutches they basically stay at peak torque RPM the entire run and let the converter do the work. I'd have to assume this is the most efficient route for "Drag racing". So revving to 8-9k with a converter woudl be less than ideal. You'd want to set it up to hold your pk TQ rpm the duration of your race and have the sheaves slowly transition in the wheel speed.

Just a thought!

I'm tired of these clutch boys whoop'n my butt the last 120ft. I smoke most of them off the line.

 

[Flyinhillbilly]

Thank you for the reply! Not much information out there on the cheaper converter performance aspect. FWIW I routinely saw 6500-6600 RPM on my 30 series this weekend. Its a mild build, doubt its more than 10 hp. 160 head, old 212, 22mm carb, exhaust, MOD2 cam and 34* timing. Lots of belt dust! First run is always the best. Heat and dust build up quick.

So what I don't get is why the 20 and 30 series would both be rated to 8hp? If the 30 can handle 8 with one side of the belt gripping the sheaves. Why is a belt gripping both sides not going to allow more power with less belt slippage? Is it the weights inside the unit? Would heavier fly weights in the driver grip the belt more tightly?

The 40 series unit weight a TON! More than my cast alum flywheel for sure. Not really meant for the 212. Or so I was told.

So what is it that provides the "grip" exactly. How can we modify it? Would heavier weights provide more force/grip at RPM? It's the only real difference I see on the 40 series aside from the V-belt.

Theres alot of talk about big RPM here. Yet when you go to the drag strip and listen to the JR dragsters with theri $1000+ clutches they basically stay at peak torque RPM the entire run and let the converter do the work. I'd have to assume this is the most efficient route for "Drag racing". So revving to 8-9k with a converter woudl be less than ideal. You'd want to set it up to hold your pk TQ rpm the duration of your race and have the sheaves slowly transition in the wheel speed.

Just a thought!

I'm tired of these clutch boys whoop'n my butt the last 120ft. I smoke most of them off the line.

I’ve never owned a TC before, but my simple hillbilly figuring says that to make the driver grip more, that the driven should be stiffer. It seems to me like that would put more tension on the belt and cause it to grip better.
My build is not a top speed build at all, I’m going to gear it low for off road hooning and (hopefully) wheelies. I just want that initial grunt that a TC gives.