48v 1000 go kart upgrade to 1800w

[Functional Artist]

The first thing that concerns me is
...that last pic (in previous post) seems to show the thick red wire labeled as Negative (-)
…& the thick black wire labeled as Positive (+)

This doesn't seem right
Thick red is almost always/universally known as Positive (+)
(even in Chinese stuff)
…& thick black is almost always Negative (-)

* If an electrical component get's connected, to a power source, (battery) backwards
(positive (+) to negative (-) & negative (-) to positive (+)
..."even for a split second" is ALL bad

Hopefully, you didn't follow these directions

 

[itsid]

Nice, the fourth image is what I wanted... thank you!

Now, those taped wires.. I hate that ALOT but more about that later
first let's proceed with the important stuff.

You made a nice little jumper wire for the ignition switch .. make three more please,

connect the motor phase wires to the controller first,
followed by the HE Sensorr wires.
(colour matching)

Now get one jumper to short out the brake (black/white)
and one to short out the "stalls" connector green and black.
(I assume the black/yellow from the forward reverse to be connected)

Connect the battery.

see if you can turn the motorshaft easily of if it's trying to resist.
if it's not,
get another jumper to short the ignition switch wires (orange/red)
see if that makes a difference. (curiosity spreads in... sorry)

connect the throttle wires, and re-apply the ignition switch jumper wire.
hold onto the motor with one hand and gently press the throttle.

Throughout the following..
if the motor is NOT spinning, check if the motor shaft is harder to tun by hand each time
and take notes.

if nothing happens,
remove the ignition switch jumper again
disconnect yellow and black from the direction switch, and connect
black and grey instead.
reinstall ignition jumper... try again.
if nothing, remove jumper, connect grey and yellow, reinstall jumper, try again

note that the brake jumper is still connected..
remove the ignition jumper and the brake jumper,
reapply ignition jumper and try again
if still nothing, disconnect yellow/grey, connect black/grey
and try again.. and if nothing happened, remove ignition jumper once more,
disconnect black/grey and connect yellow/black, reapply jumper and last try for now.
(See why proper connectors and jumpers are easier to debug than 'fixed' connections?)

Reason I ask you to detach and reapply the ignition switch jumper between each test
is that most controllers use a check-routine during bootup (ignition switch)
if any important bit fails during bootup it'll simply refuse to turn the motor on.

If by now you still have no movement,
and you didn't find the motor being harder to turn by hand once the throttle is applied
which I doubt to be honest..
you can try to repeat the whole sequence
moving the jumper on the "stalls" connector over to black/blue
and once again moving it to green/blue

please report, we go on with your findings.

'sid

 

[Tony86]

Finally i think i have found somthing but not 100% I have the ebike tester and when spinning the motor on motor 1. I have just ha/blue stands for hall sensor which means blue and yellow hall is damaged?? On motor 2 it has ha/blue and green/ does that mean the yellow hall sensor is damaged to as when spinning the motor all 3 should light up on tester??? Both could in motor light up fine .
The controller 1. Says it has controller 5v output but controller to 2 does not come up with 5v light? And on both controller 1 and 2 I have no angle of 60 or 120 degrees , and don't no why or what that could be ? Some have wired it to battery for test I tryed this no difference the instructions are shocking ...
So I'm guessing both motors need hall sensor replaced in motor as all the lights did not flash ,
1 controller has damaged 5v output
But both dont do the angle configuration which is strange??
I will uploads pics thankyou

 

[itsid]

IDK what the tester actually tests for
So I can't tell what you should see really.

generally only ONE HE Sensor should be active at any one time..
and while some are sensible enough to generate a transitioning effect inbetween the sensors
(thus two are lit for a brief moment)

Just because your tester isn't showing that, doesn't means it's not working.
Since it moans about both motors I'm rather certain that tester is the culprit.

Please do me a favour and grab you multimeter and a 5V source of some kind
(a 3 AA battery holder with red and black wires should do nicely..
but you can also split open an old USB cable and use a powerbank
(NOT a wallwart and much less connected to a computer though!!)

Now conenct the black and red wires (either from the 3 AA batpack or the powerbank)
and connect them to the red and black from your HE sensor plug on the motor.
the sensors are now properly powered.

Now take the multimeter (set to DC voltage <20) and probe between the black and any of the colored wires
everytime very slowly rotating the motorshaft one full rotation
at one point the multimeter should show a non zero value
(usually about4.7V on a 5V source but everything above 3.3V is fine)

If you cannot see such peak happening try once more turning the motorshaft even slower
If you found ONE such peak,
you can mark the motorshaft position inregards to the motor body with a sharpie,
the other sensors should light up 120° apart (seldomly 60°)
just so you know where to search for the blip on your multimeter

Only if you cannot find the HE Sensors this way (or say they're not responding)
chances are a wire is indeed broken or a sensor is faulty.

Sensors usually do not get faulty.. so maybe someone connected them to the
Controllers power wires that would surely burn them clean out.

if that happened to you, just say so, we will help you find replacements and install them if possible.

'sid

 

[Tony86]

Thanks Sid I'm gonna double check that if you see the below that might be helpful and why it may not be working thankyou tony

 

[Tony86]

Hi sorry for the late reply ... so did what you said I think .. I tested the motor with 5v power source.
Motor 1 black to red 5v
Black to yellow 0.66
Black to green0.00
Black to blue 0.00
Motor 2 was all 0.00 black and red of course at 5v

The tester motor hall shows with turned on
Red to black 5v
Black to blue 3.55v
Black to green 3.55v
Black to yellow 3.55v which I fault was ok

The tester controller hall lines go as with it turned on 0.00 on everything but when you first touch red and black goes upto 0.20 for a slit second then back to 0.00
When wired with usb 5v source I got
Red to black 5v
Black to blue 1.14v
Black to green 0.00v
Black to yellow 0.00v

Going back to the motor 1 so does that 0.68 resistance in hall lines black to yellow mean damaged ? Fixable ? When wiring I wish I could say what I did wire it rong but can't remember its got in such a mess that I'm not to shore whats happened.
With the controller I wired 5v usb power to controller and got 0.00 on both controllers and hall lines
I really hope that is helpfull to solving the issue thankyou

 

[Tony86]

Couple of testing pics of motor 1 with 0.67v in black to yellow problem I think

 

[itsid]

Hi sorry for the late reply ... so did what you said I think .. I tested the motor with 5v power source.
Motor 1 black to red 5v
Black to yellow 0.66
Black to green0.00
Black to blue 0.00

have you turned the motorshaft ?

Motor 2 was all 0.00 black and red of course at 5v

again? was the motorshaft turned or not?

Going back to the motor 1 so does that 0.68 resistance in hall lines black to yellow mean damaged ? Fixable ?

RESISTANCE??? What resistance all of a sudden?

sorry Tony,
either I'm not understanding what you just said,
or you haven't understood what I said above.
I think we might got stuck in a language issue.

I am NOT interested in a static motor reading of the hall lines.
(that can be anything all lines zero, one partially on, one fully on, two partially on.)
I am interested in
if all coloured lines (yellow, blue and green)
against black turn on (non zero value)
as the motorshaft is slowly rotated

you should NOT connect anything to the controller and much less the tester!
the one thing you need apart from the motor itself is a multimeter
(well and a 4.5 - 5V powersupply of course)

Now again:
red and black for the hall lines connected to a 5V powersupply (just as the pic '160431' you posted)
Multimeter set to 20V (as in the pictures)
Now, connect the black probe of the multimeter to the black line of the sensor/power supply
and the red line to any coloured wire ( just as you did on image '155137' with the yellow line)

you have a reading, that's good nearly 0.7V is a bit low for my taste but it is a signal.
leave the probes as they are and rotate the motorshaft slowly!
note down the maximum readout Voltage you got after one full revolution of the crankshaft.
repeat with red probe to green, then red probe to blue.
everytime the maximum readout after one very slow manual rotation of the crankshaft.

repeat for the second motor.

let's forget about the controller for now, we'll get to that.

I assume the tester does the same but ALSO requires the motorshaft to be turned
(as I asked you to turn the motor shaft)
but I do not care at all if the tester works (or how it works) at the moment,
I am interested if the motor is okay or not!

'sid

PS ideally take a video of the entire testing routine and upload it to you tube if possible..

 

[Tony86]

Thanks Sid I will do a video will be so much easier and I did twist the motorshaft when connected and they was the volts I got written down nothing changed besides the yellow to black but happy to show you step by step and you can see if I'm doing this right thankyou &#55357;&#56837;&#55357;&#56397;&#55357;&#56396;

 

[itsid]

Okay, in case you did...
your HE Sensors are fried
sounds like you hooked them up to 12V or maybe in reverse or both..

Maybe the tester did (maybe a BackEMF setting ?)
hard to tell.

Anywhoo, you need to allow the multimeter to settle in on a found voltage,
that's why I asked to turn the shaft ever so slowly.
once you got one HE Sensor position, the next will be 120° away
(hence I asked you to mark the found positions on the motor)

With fried sensors there are only two options:
*replace the sensors
crack open the motor case and see what sensors have been used,
buy new ones off digikey
and install them properly

*replace the entire motor

IDK if the motor controller is able to switch to BackEMF control,
it would need to be programmable or have a hidden switch to do so I guess
I doubt it has/can

'sid

PS waiting for the video, still hoping it's a minor mistake on your behalf
and nothing is in fact defective

 

[Tony86]

48v 1800w motor

Hi Sid please see attached video and tell me what you think?? Thank bud &#55357;&#56397;&#55357;&#56394;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5v8ph2cZKU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZqtW-9RTZY

---------- Post added at 05:12 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:57 PM ----------

Sorry may of did this rong struggling with marking it I think I no what you mean so I should mark a start point twist it mark it? They both seem to move and twist the same hopefully the video can tell you more thankyou

 

[itsid]

great...
yes from the video you surely have NOT rotated the engine shaft one full rotation each time (360°)
and yes that is very important!

so grab a sharpie and mark one tooth (any tooth)
have that tooth pointing straight up (as straight up as possible)

ONLY connect the red probe to yellow and the black to ground.
(do not switch leads!!)
rotate the motor shaft clockwise until the marked tooth is again facing straight up
while observing the multimeter readout.
repeat with the green and blue wire.

once you found one position, mark on the motor case where the marked tooth sits,
that should make it easier to find the next position 120° apart.

Do that with both motors again.
AND take notes!!
I want to know how far you've turned the shaft with the 0.66 reading for example..
looks like a mere 60° or such, but I need to know
And while I agree that degrees are hard to tell with a jerking motorshaft alike,
so count all the jerks for one full rotation and write down the reading for each jump-position of the shaft instead.. that should suffice to get a good idea
(yes that DOES include all 0 readings I'm afraid)

'sid

PS I'm a bit relieved that you actually did this wrong, so we can still have some hope for the motors.

 

[Functional Artist]

Hey guys,
Sid asked me to do a voltage test on the sensor wires of (1) of my Boma motors
...so, we would have a point of reference, to go off of while troubleshooting this motor/controller.

I rigged up a ~5V power supply (3 AAA batteries)
…& connected it to the red & black wires on the sensor plug (to "power" the sensors)

Then, I tested each of the (3) sensor wires (yellow, green & blue) while slowly rotating the motor shaft.

This brushless motor seems to have (18) distinct notches that you can feel when turning the shaft.

Another thing I noticed is that when the MM was switched to the 20V setting I only got a 0.01V reading
...but, when set at the 2,000mV setting I got 007V

So, I put a silver line pointing straight up on the sprocket, for reference, & designated it as #1

Here are the results I got

Yellow wire showed a 007 reading on 1, 2, 3 & 7, 8, 9 & also 13, 14, 15
Green wire showed a 007 reading on 3, 4, 5 & 9, 10, 11 & also 15, 16, 17
Blue wire showed a 007 reading on 5, 6, 7 & 11, 12, 13 & also 17, 18, 1

I did a video to show the testing method & results

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmkSZQrSKyU

Hope it helps

 

[itsid]

Thank you Kevin!
I am a bit baffled by how low the reading is actually...
7mV is certainly not what I was expecting.
maybe it needs the magnetic field of an engaged coil... ah well

A distinct repeatable pattern that follows the presumed logic..
that's all we need

Okay Tony, sorry for asking you to set your MM to 20V..
as you can see Kevin got a reading of just 7mV
(I'm still baffled by that)

'sid

 

[Tony86]

48v 1800w

https://youtu.be/cpDXnvFV5GY

https://youtu.be/74q9A7Sp6YQ
So guessing by the vids and thankyou functional artist for the video awesome, I think i can confirm I have to dead sensors what do you think guys ?

 

[itsid]

wait WHAT???
red to blue vid#1
yellow to red vid#2???..
NOOO!

you MUST measure
yellow to black
green to black
blue to black.. always to ground, never to source
And you again set the MM to 20V..
as you can see FA put his to 2V (2000mV)
since the output is rather minimal (which surprised me)

Sorry Tony, but you did it wrong again
Set your Multimeter to 2Volts (maybe even 200mV)
make sure HE Sensors are properly powered, then again
take the measurements (do NOT rush through the notches of the motor!)
black green, black blue, black yellow...

No worries, we're patient, but try to keep up

'sid

PS Oh btw.. eyes are horizontally alligned inside one's head.. so langscape video is MUCH nicer to view.. we're not on cell phones most of the time and such .. so if you can please turn the phone sideways.
the wirings is of more relevancve than the white wall in the background for example
and please don't rush through the notches.. the sensors need to saturate the Multimeter in order for it to show a reading, and while that SHOULD be quick, it might not always be (the flickering of the minus bar on the LCD is a clear sign that the multimeter is "seeing some change"
We want to know what that change was

 

[Tony86]

Thats what i was doing before black to colours Sorry fault you said red to yellow on previous .... bin so confusing let alone txting communication trying to fix somthing even harder ....huge thankyou for your patience will get it right tomorrow I'm sure only 1 colour of the sensor wires work out of the 2 motors will show you tomorrow I think they need new he sensor will confirm in few hours thankyou

 

[itsid]

Okay, let me set things straight...

I said:
"connect the red probe to yellow and the black to ground."
(just to make sure you get a 'positive' reading on the voltage)

red and black probes are the the needle pen thingies on your multimeter;
We are interested in what happens between
yellow and black,
green and black and
blue and black

the red wire on the sensor-plug you can safely ignore entirely (after checking it's indeed connected to 5Volts)

maybe that's been a misunderstandinng..
since that all happened off camera I can't tell if on my or your behalf *shrugs*

Anyways.. you still need to repeat that with your multimeter set to 2V or even better 200mV
since as FA showed us.. his response level is quite small with just 7mV
and chances are yours will be alike.

'sid

 

[Tony86]

48v 1800w go kart

Hi guys sorry for my late reply lots going on .... you was right the 2 motors was not readying like fa was, I also got another motor and blew another...** 3 motors and 2 controllers to repair
doing so I think i need new sensors do you no where I can get them lil he sensors* for motor 1800-2000w or what they called as they have no code on them?

On the 1800w controller I have 12 mosfets and only 6 are working the mosfets labelled p in picture are positive and working doing multimeter testing ,so I guess I got to change 6 mosfets? And would prob be a good guess why there were blowing so quick ? I have here The code on the mosfets sbon18r I will uploads a pic of it if you can see it* really hard to see it myself.... otherwise* must be a substitute? Hopefully that should be it nothing else seem to be blown
thankyou* so much
Tony

 

[itsid]

No no.. the MosFETS do not need to be swapped out I bet!

Do you see the pattern?
++xx ++xx ++xx

Now your BLDC is a three phase motor (three leads right?)
each set of four MosFets power one of those phases
in your pic from left to right namely Green, Blue and Yellow

And now comes the interesting bit.. a Mosfet is unidirectional,
it can only forward current in ONE specific direction!
your motor phases however need a polydirectional powersource
(the wires swap between being positive and negative back and forth)
And that's where the second set of MosFets comes in!
Source and Drain are swapped

Take a close look at your pcb and you'll see
here's an example of what the underside of your PCB would look like:
(cut to one phase but I think it's even the same controller)


every three pin set is one Mosfet,
they're all facing the same way (tab facing towards the bottom edge)
the left most pin in that view is the gate pin (in your pic as well)
the center pin is the drain and the rightmost the source (for future reference)

Now, the straight bus bars you see soldered above and below within the box are tied to the battery
the P+ just above the box and to the left is where the upper rail is wired to (your Red battery wire)
and the P- on the righthand side is where the lower rail connects to (your Black battery wire)

The center Island blob is where the phase wire is connected to
Anyhow see how the Mosfets are differently connected

the two left ones' drain pin is connected to P+
(on second one the connection is on the other side of the PCB so you can't really see that)
but you see the source pin being connected to the phase wire.

on the rightmost two you see how the source pin is connected to the P- bar
and the drain pin is connected to the phase wire, right?

So when you measured every other pair of MosFets as faulty,
chances are it's because you did it incorrectly indeed.

I hope you measured in diode test mode and under no power..
otherwise there's a chance they are indeed faulty by now.
since you can short them out and pop the diode inside.

'sid

PS hm frankly I may suffer from a brain fart but
P+ and P- in my pic should be swapped *headscratch* .. nevermind...
important is they are connected in opposite direction in pairs of two!