Supercharged 212cc Think Tank / Idea Board

[Kartorbust]

Yeah I saw that earlier and couldn't figure it out. If someone could make an extension for the crank pto, that would make this a lot easier.

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[bob58o]

It would not be that hard to direct drive a JS and put a clutch and a Pulley (to drive the blower) on the JS.

Gets the blower turning the right way to move air from the front of the engine towards the back.


10T on Crank
10T on JS
1.75" Pulley on JS
3.25" Pulley on Blower

1800 RPM Clutch engagement.
7.5 Lbs Boost

 

[Kartorbust]

So if I am understanding your diagram, 1:1 from the pto to jackshaft, with the js spinning, it's turning the pulley at the other end, spinning the supercharger. Then the clutch behind the 1:1, once the engagement rpm has been reached, locks up and you go. Sounds like it'll work, least to me.

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[bob58o]

An idea...
I have been looking up other ways to connect a starter with having a clutch... I found there is a bit of space between the motor side plate and the clutch..

I'm curious about this starter.

---------- Post added at 11:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:33 PM ----------

So if I am understanding your diagram, 1:1 from the pto to jackshaft, with the js spinning, it's turning the pulley at the other end, spinning the supercharger. Then the clutch behind the 1:1, once the engagement rpm has been reached, locks up and you go. Sounds like it'll work, least to me.

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That is just one way to do it.
It keeps the blower spinning at idle.
Easy way to attach the pulley.
It sets up the belt to be on the correct side.

I could also tune clutch engagement and boost. Playing around with different pulleys and sprockets, I could make the clutch engage at a little higher RPM. That might be helpful if the sumnab struggles to idle.

 

[Kartorbust]

My thoughts are, one could instead doing a 1:1, do a 1:2 or higher ratio and get the supercharger spinning faster sooner. Would have to play with the clutch engagement a bit more. Not sure if it would make any difference overall.

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[NewbCarter]

As far as CarsAndCameras build , i noticed they had a machined pulley between the engine and CVT..

As of the whole bypass thing , i dont really see a need for it with a draw through setup ... tho im no expert on forced induction so your guess is as good as mine.

 

[bob58o]

I really just like the beginning of the video with the kid and the iron. LOL
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wEIhwETzW0

---------- Post added at 08:41 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:23 AM ----------

My thoughts are, one could instead doing a 1:1, do a 1:2 or higher ratio and get the supercharger spinning faster sooner. Would have to play with the clutch engagement a bit more. Not sure if it would make any difference overall.

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Yep already thinking about that.
But I need the Blower to spin slower than the crank.
The blower drive ratio would be set by the Crank to JS sprocket ratio and the pulley ratio. And that final ratio will be determined by the amount of theoretical boost I want to produce

If the clutch is designed to engage at 1800 RPM, then a 10T on crank and and 14T on the JS will have the clutch engaging at 2,500 engine RPM.
If the pulleys were 1:1, then I would have 15 lbs boost and a 2,500 engine RPM clutch engagement without fiddling with the springs/weights.

If I had 10T on Clutch, 14T on JS, 2.50" Pulley on JS, 3.25" Pulley on Blower,....
Then clutch engagement would be 2,500 RPM and boost would be 8 lbs.

10T on Clutch, 17T on JS
3" on JS, 3.25" on Blower
3000 RPM clutch engagement
8 lbs boost.

So if set up like this, it is fairly easy to tune for boost and clutch engagement by swapping pulleys and sprockets.

 

[mckutzy]

Bob-as per a thread sadly now closed but I'll revive it soon, I had earlier...
http://www.diygokarts.com/vb/showthread.php?t=33700

 

[bob58o]

I've been looking into the plumbing.

The seller at Aliexpress told me the intake and output are around 48mm OD.

The NR "Spout-style" Carb Adapter has a 32mm OD.

A OKO carb's OD is 35mm on the engine side.

I figure I can run some 1.25" (32mm) ID flexible reinforced hose
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Sioux-C...raided-Vinyl-Tubing-900-02509C0002H/300164488
OR
https://flexpvc.com/cart/agora.cgi?...R4uUGDR6QqqoYjAjgTlVi6fqsOxfPgwcaAswkEALw_wcB

From the carb adapter (32mm OD)
http://www.nrracing.com/product-p/man-24-wp.htm

to a 1.25" (32mm) ID Aluminum Coupling Sleeve.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/ALUMINUM-C...281823472489?_trksid=p2385738.m4383.l4275.c10

I need a 48mm ID > 32mm ID Silicone Reducing Coupler to attach the blower to the 32mm intake, hose, and coupling sleeve.
1.875” > 1.25”
http://www.siliconeintakes.com/inta....html?osCsid=a7ded6a931f4fc4578aeca6ce185ac92

I need a 48mm ID > 35mm ID Silicone Reducing Coupler to attach the blower to the 35mm carb
1.875” > 1.375”
http://www.siliconeintakes.com/intake-pipe-reducer/pipe-reducer-p-90.html

 

[bob58o]

The more complicated plumbing with a a bypass valve....
Because I am me and I don't really KISS.

32mm OD Intake Manifold
$40
http://www.nrracing.com/product-p/man-24-wp.htm
32mm ID Reinforced Flexible Hose 24"
$6
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Sioux-Ch...002H/300164488
32mm OD > 63mm OD Stainless Steel Reducer
$9
https://www.ebay.com/itm/63mm-Turn-...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649
63mm ID Silicone Hose Coupler
$7
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-5-to-2-5...d=112370077405&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851
63mm OD Tube with Type S knock-off Greddy BOV
$43
https://www.protuninglab.com/bov-gs-bk-fp-g250.html
16mm OD BOV Output Adapter for Clamp on Hose
$15
http://www.tf-works.com/greddy-type-s-bov-16mm-outlet/
63mm ID > 48mm ID Silicone Reducer
$9
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Sil...32276240230.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.xvx5mN
AISIN SC with 48mm OD Intake and Output
$235
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Car...-3624-4090-87bd-21d27eb4dcf6&rmStoreLevelAB=5
48mm ID > 35mm ID Silicone Reducer
$10
http://www.siliconeintakes.com/intake-pipe-reducer/pipe-reducer-p-90.html
35mm OD T-Tube (with 16mm OD spout)
$20
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Universa...-Blow-Off-Valve-T-Joint-Adaptor-/251299472904
35mm ID Silicone Hose Coupler
$9
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Blue-Silic...d=142604573669&_trksid=p2385738.c100677.m4598
Carb with 35mm OD Mounting Spigot
$22
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/28-...xzOMfPbyNJ-0Dt8_ZXWu7ROgrkAC-IzhoCiHcQAvD_BwE


If I trim some stuff up, about 24" from Air Filter Screen to where 32mm ID hose attaches (if everything is lined up linearly like this).

 

[Whitetrashrocker]

Your making this way to hard. On a draw through roots blower there is no need for a pressure relief.

The boost in a turbo application is created before the throttle body, and when the throttle blades shut the excess boost goes out via the blow off valve as to not damage the turbo.

In a roots blower application, the boost is created after the throttle body, so when the throttle blades close it doesn't make any difference since the boost pressure is in the intake manifold, the valves are still opening at low/closed throttle allowing the boost pressure to escape.

Now for safety there is a small blow off plate on the blower housing that will rupture if the engine grenadeds. It helps keep the housing from going into orbit.

None of the Superchargers I hang with have bypass plumbing.

 

[bob58o]

I am aware that by-pass valves are not necessary on positive displacement pump draw through superchargers, but many Positive Displacement Pumps have an internal bypass. It seems the main purpose is fuel economy and preventing supercharger surge.


http://www.3800pro.com/forum/superchargers/299-boost-bypass-function.html
"The Eaton supercharger system incorporates a specially designed bypass valve, which is actuated by a vacuum motor near the throttle body, and recirculates the supercharger air flow when boost is not required. During typical driving conditions, the engine is under boost around 5% of the time, which means the remaining 95% of the time the engine is under vacuum, allowing for better fuel economy and a quieter ride.

http://www.superchargersonline.com/index.php?main_page=page&id=11

"Even though some smaller supercharger systems don't come standard with By-Pass Valves, we recommend the use of a By-Pass Valve anytime you are forcing air into your motor, even at low boost levels. If you are running at pressures in the proximity of 7psi or above, then it is definitely mandatory to run a By-Pass Valve or your chances of damaging head gaskets, rings, seals, or other important parts of your engine are extremely high, or just a matter of time."

"Most of your street-type on up to your medium-duty racing superchargers set-ups don't require you to blow the air into the atmosphere, they use what is considered to be a standard type by-pass valve that is designed to re-circulate the air back into the supercharger, then the supercharger re-uses the air as it is needed. Due to the lower volume of air that these smaller type superchargers will be forcing, it is not necessary to have the air from the supercharger blow-off into the atmosphere. In general, it is recommended to use a standard by-pass valve on superchargers with 12psi or less."

 

[bob58o]

None of the Superchargers I hang with have bypass plumbing.

Daily Drivers? or Drag Cars?

 

[Kartorbust]

I wonder if it would work better with a fuel injection kit better, since the module can adjust for air change vs having to dink around with a carburetor. Hmmm twin charged go kart maybe? This supercharger with a mini turbo?

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[bob58o]

I wonder if it would work better with a fuel injection kit better, since the module can adjust for air change vs having to dink around with a carburetor. Hmmm twin charged go kart maybe? This supercharger with a mini turbo?

I have convinced myself that I can find parts to make this work. I'm wondering where I would place things in relationship to the engine, but I really need to figure out what this would go on.

It probably would work better with fuel injection, but I have no interest in EFI at the moment and the mechanical injection by Tillotson only has the small "carb" for now (I think). I was thinking of using a 30mm OKO Flat-slide with 35mm OD spigot.

As far as the blower and Turbo... I don't know why I would do that. I'm going to be underdriving the blower as is. It should be able to make way more boost (by itself) than I will need.

 

[Kartorbust]

As far as the blower and Turbo... I don't know why I would do that. I going to be underdriving the blower as is. It should be able to make way more boost (by itself) than I will need.

I'm just curious how well it would work. Right now I do have (well sitting at my dad's) a non-hemi in the box not running. If I have time this summer to throw a kart together, I might try this but I have way too much on my plate. Though I do have parts sitting under the tree for a kart.

At any rate, hopefully this works well for you if and when you pull the trigger, I'll be watching this closely.


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[Forge fixer]

predator 212cc

Bob if the engine you put the supercharger on has electric start you could drive the supercharger off the flywheel side or cut the starter cup and weld surpentine pulley in between and space out the recoil. that is what I did when I used a smog pump.

 

[bob58o]

Bob if the engine you put the supercharger on has electric start you could drive the supercharger off the flywheel side or cut the starter cup and weld surpentine pulley in between and space out the recoil. that is what I did when I used a smog pump.

I purchased that Kohler Flywheel and electric start / charging kit.
So Assume, at the moment, I have both recoil/electric start.

How exactly from the flywheel side? You said "or" so is there another option besides what you did? Like since I can use electric start, I don't need a functioning starter cup OR like running a chain from the ring gear on the flywheel.

And I’m struggling to picture what you did. What did the Pulley get welded to?

I think McKutzy’s thread talks of this... maybe not? Think he needed the freewheel from the pull starter.
http://www.diygokarts.com/vb/showthread.php?t=33700

---------- Post added at 07:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:23 PM ----------

I think I got it.
Cut the starter cup in two pieces.
The flat part and the cylindrical part.
Then weld each half to each side of the pulley.

Then add on some spacers to position pull start assembly properly with starter cup.

Other option?

 

[bob58o]

Wondering if a pulse fuel pump would work with a forced induction engine????
But I suppose if I run the pulse line from the block, instead of from the intake manifold, it would work the same. I was thinking the pressure inside manifold would cause issues with pulse pump if using the signal from the manifold.

 

[Kartorbust]

Well Carsandcameras ran into fueling issues with their dragster and went with an electric fuel pump instead. They had a pulse pump and it wasn't keeping up. But it'll also depend on how fast you'll be spinning the engine to. Of course their fuel tank is maybe 5 feet away from the engi e and that could cause some issues. Maybe have a the fuel tank just a bit higher than the carburetor and run a pulse pump and go from there.

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