Issue with hemi predator 212 after new parts

[boostedskyline]

For starters I have yet to even put the bike completely together and all the starts have been with the motor on the floor

Mod list as of yesterday is:
-upgraded intake with upgraded jet and emulsion tube
-aftermarket header with muffler

Today I installed the ARC billet flywheel with 8° advanced timing and also 18lb valve springs

Issue came about when I first started the motor after the install, first thing I noticed is that the pull start was real snappy and basically it got torn out of my hand the first pull, I believe I started it in the choke position and when I saw it was staying on I went to open the choke and that's when it bogged down and died while it shot out a puff of smoke out of the intake/carb. Tried to start back up, pull start seemed even more snappy and to be fair I didn't even want to start it fearing something might blow and I'm just squatting there holding it down to the floor with my hand

Has anybody run into this problem after installing something I've got listed?

 

[mckutzy]

Have you installed an aftermarket billet conrod???

If not Id ditch the valve springs.....if the gov is removed...




On a completely different note....

RB26DETT FTW.......

 

[Hellion]

The reciprocating mass is going to be stiffer with the heavier valve springs, since you're pulling against their added weight/stiffness when you go to yank the starter.

Bolt it down and run that sucker in with some decent oil.

I'll reiterate. BOLT IT DOWN...or make an engine stand for it out of some stout lumber.

Don't forget to eat your Wheaties.

 

[boostedskyline]

The governor is still in, I've got the governor springs set for the 4.9k rpm I've seen people get it up to, I'll most likely do the con rod when spring comes around. Would the valves be the issue? Do I have to set the valve lash to something even though the hemis should already be set?

---------- Post added at 06:52 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:43 PM ----------

The reciprocating mass is going to be stiffer with the heavier valve springs, since you're pulling against their added weight/stiffness when you go to yank the starter.

Bolt it down and run that sucker in with some decent oil.

I'll reiterate. BOLT IT DOWN...or make an engine stand for it out of some stout lumber.

Don't forget to eat your Wheaties.

Starting it isn't my problem, it's what it did when it started that has me worried, got any idea why it bogged down, died and puffed out smoke from the carb?

 

[Hellion]

That wasn't smoke, it was fuel vapor.

Obviously you don't have your air filter installed.

I would bet your carb needs to be dialed-in with the new parts. Idle mixture and high speed, if there is such a screw....

 

[boostedskyline]

That wasn't smoke, it was fuel vapor.

Obviously you don't have your air filter installed.

I would bet your carb needs to be dialed-in with the new parts. Idle mixture and high speed, if there is such a screw....

This is basically how it was put together when I started it, it looked like smoke puffed out of the filter, I did turn the idle control screw a bit to the right because I had it idling as low as possible before

 

[boostedskyline]

I'm thinking I might have figured out my backfire issue, a week or two ago when I was mocking up the engine to the frame before painting the engine tipped and fuel poured out of what I'm now thinking was the carb, which might explain the fuel vapor hellion mentioned and would make sense, I'll still be double checking valve lash and my coil distance to the flywheel tomorrow

 

[bob58o]

Where did you get your 18lb springs? Are u certain they are for a Hemi?

It was the 18 lb spring that will coil bind with a stock cam in a hemi head. The 22lb ones work!

 

[ezcome-ezgo]

I know this is how you learn, but sheesh.

 

[KartFab]

secure the engine, pull the starter cord slowly till you hit the compression stroke (you will feel the resistance), let the cord go back into the pull start to reset, then pull again slowly until you feel the resistance, give the cord a big yank.

Also, since you ****ed with the governor, you probably will have issues starting your engine because the governor helps you start the engine by holding the throttle butterfly wide open when you first start the engine. If you manually hold the throttle butterfly open when you start the engine with the choke on, then it will start within the first 1-3 pulls.


Also, if your engine isnt running right, did you use a torque wrench and torque the flywheel to 65 ft pounds? if not, you may have spun the flywheel on the crank, sheared the key, or damaged the flywheel keyway and crank keyway.

 

[boostedskyline]

secure the engine, pull the starter cord slowly till you hit the compression stroke (you will feel the resistance), let the cord go back into the pull start to reset, then pull again slowly until you feel the resistance, give the cord a big yank.

Also, since you ****ed with the governor, you probably will have issues starting your engine because the governor helps you start the engine by holding the throttle butterfly wide open when you first start the engine. If you manually hold the throttle butterfly open when you start the engine with the choke on, then it will start within the first 1-3 pulls.


Also, if your engine isnt running right, did you use a torque wrench and torque the flywheel to 65 ft pounds? if not, you may have spun the flywheel on the crank, sheared the key, or damaged the flywheel keyway and crank keyway.

I haven't messed with the governor, the spring right under
The gas tank is moved into one of the holes which lets it rev higher and it was already in that hole right out of the box.

I'll be taking it apart and double check valve lash, coil gap, etc today, what should I look for in terms of a sheared key? When I put it in I got all the burrs off and it was super tight to put into the slot when I hit it in with a rubber mallet.

Any good ways to tighten flywheel on to spec WITH the clutch on? What I was doing Was holding the bolt that threads in on the clutch side with a wrench and tightening the flywheel bolt with the foot lb torque wrench but i couldn't get it to click at 65 ft lb so i ended up just tightening as much as possible and then hitting it with the impact gun a couple times

Butt I don't believe the timing was off because it was idling as fine as it could with the choke on up until I opened it up then backfired and puffed out smoke/ fuel vapor out of the filter

 

[OzFab]

Any good ways to tighten flywheel on to spec WITH the clutch on?

You need to jam the fins so the flywheel doesn't turn but, not with a screwdriver; there are specially made tools for this but, if you don't want to lay out the money for a one-off use, it wouldn't be too difficult to knock something up...

i ended up just tightening as much as possible and then hitting it with the impact gun a couple times

That will do it but, not very accurate...

 

[MrKnowitall]

What was wrong with the old parts?
Did the engine run? Yes? Now you have one that doesn't. Dontcha wish you'd left it alone?

 

[Hellion]

What was wrong with the old parts?
Did the engine run? Yes? Now you have one that doesn't. Dontcha wish you'd left it alone?

You gotta figure this hobby sort of weeds out all the non hackers who don't pack the gear to serve in my beloved go kart corps!

Those that can reassemble all the parts and have a running engine are like PhD level. ...Juuuust kidding

 

[mckutzy]

Since taking off/replacing the clutch is easy....
I have been meaning to finish my tool for holding the crank.... It's just a weld-on sprocket hub with a bar welded on, about 2' long... Slips on the shaft held by the key. Crank away at the flywheel bolt.

 

[pearl111]

WOW great idea I will be making one of these tools. Wish I knew this some time ago. Every one should have one. Thanks Mckutzy.

 

[mckutzy]

Honestly, I thought it up about the same time that I saw this about cam timing and how to change that......
Most talk is on ignition timing but not cam timing....

http://www.kartworks.ca/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=178_164&products_id=1919

 

[boostedskyline]

Well, for future reference, after knocking out the most probable suspects (valve lash, coil gap) I ended up draining a bit of the oil to help with compression since I had it filled to the max line, I'm guessing it wasn't so much a problem with the stock springs (even though now that I think about it I couldn't figure or why I had to give it numerous pulls to start with only intake, header and jet installed) but after putting the 18lb springs I'm guessing it didn't help. Thanks for the input

 

[Nosandwich]

Ok...here's a DOH!!! for ya, was the piston on TDC on the COMPRESSION stroke when you set valve lash?

 

[boostedskyline]

Ok...here's a DOH!!! for ya, was the piston on TDC on the COMPRESSION stroke when you set valve lash?

Yep, literally quad checked valve lash since that kept coming up as the obvious solution to my problem, I've got it set to a tight .003 gap now on both exhaust and intake. If only I'd seen that sticker on the side of the gas tank about oil level earlier I'd have avoided all this headache