Twin 212cc vs. Predator 420cc

[sethro34]

I have a live axle go kart currently with a single 212cc predator on it. I want to do something larger though for increased speed. For more speed, would it be better to upgrade to a 420cc engine or could I just add a second 212cc on there for a twin setup to allow for higher speeds?

I am a rather large noob when it comes to engines so bare with me!

 

[ezcome-ezgo]

Drivetrain is centrifugal clutch or torque converter? A twin set-up won't necessarily get you higher speeds. "Speed" lives in RPM and gearing. More power just gets you there faster.

 

[bob58o]

What he said^^

Two engines provide more torque, but spin at same RPM as one engine.
Gearing perhaps 4:1, instead of 6:1 will give more speed at same RPM.
Rocking 13" tires instead of 10" tires gives more speed at same RPM.
The twin engines (or larger single engine) will not give you more top end unless you change gearing or tire size.

Bigger tires or gearing for more top end can be possible because you have increased torque.

Sorry if this is confusing, I'm not fully awake yet.

 

[Poboy kartman]

What I'm not fully awake yet.

Like that's gonna happen........

 

[bob58o]

Also depends on other things too. What RPM do you get to now? How big are your tires?
How fast do you go now? What is current gearing?

If not reaching the max RPM allowed by valve springs, then adding another engine (or a bigger one) could add top speed without changing gearing.

There are cheaper options than the Predator 420cc if you go that route.
This just blows my mind! So I keep sharing. Sorry if it is repetitive.. Thanks Cavfire!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/PowerLand-P...297b6d9&pid=100033&rk=1&rkt=4&sd=282022990644

 

[leesiel]

There are cheaper options than the Predator 420cc if you go that route.
This just blows my mind! So I keep sharing. Sorry if it is repetitive.. Thanks Cavfire!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/PowerLand-P...297b6d9&pid=100033&rk=1&rkt=4&sd=282022990644

Does anybody know anything about these motors : are they reliable, can hop up parts be found?
I would like to use one on my Murray build.
Price blows my mind too Bob.

 

[bob58o]

I'm guessing its a semi - clone of a Honda. Maybe a clone of the Predator. A cloned clone?
Also ASSuming one clone is as good as the next.
gx390 parts or Pred 420 parts is what I am thinking, but IDK.

Electric start version is $190

EDIT:
Willing to bet my 5 HP Tecumseh (minus shipping) that most of these parts can be found as either of the above engines' parts. Looks Clonda To Me.

Predator 420 is 90mm x 66 mm (SAME AS THIS)

If you have any questions regarding a PowerLand Product please feel free to contact our fully trained technicians at 909-673-1777 ext 1. from Monday to Friday between 7 a.m. to 5 p.m. Sat between 7 a.m. to 3:30 p.m. pacific standard time. Our tec support team closed on Sundays and national holidays.

I called. They said "Not sure about performance parts, but Honda Parts fit like a glove!"
So YES, parts are pretty easily available!

 

[ezcome-ezgo]

I noticed the Powerland auctions now have a conditional request: "Please do not GAB on us. Thank you for understanding."

 

[sethro34]

Jesus, yall responded fast with great answers! Thanks so much! Just came to realization that if I have more torque, I can have a faster gear ratio. Thanks for your input!

 

[leesiel]

I noticed the Powerland auctions now have a conditional request: "Please do not GAB on us. Thank you for understanding."

HAHAHAHA word spreads quick.
It never accrued to me to contact someone
Glad I'm not doing the thinking for us all!
Looks like my next one is gonna be electric start.
Almost seems to good to be true

 

[cavfire]

If I had to make a guess, I'd say the 212s would be more reliable at high rpm. Racers turn the clones and predators pretty hard on STOCK rods. I couldn't imagine a stock internal ungoverned big block staying together at 6,000+ with that big jug.

Obviously where the 420 shines is torque and then some. Opens up some doors on bigger tires (a big plus on off road karts) or higher gearing when you know the motor has some grunt, which in turn will raise top speed from a higher overall gearing.

 

[FreeRunner15]

(assuming can install forged connecting rod) Only thing that is stopping me from getting this is is once the governor is removed Can a 40 series TC driver handle the power? i mean removing the governor gives twice the mount of torque by doubling RPMs.

(thinking about the Power modifications)
Man i can't even imagine removing the governor ,installing a torque converter, and you guys know dang well i'll be the one to install a super-torque-boosting camshaft lol So i don't think theres a torque converter to handle all that and if there is it wouldnt be cheap but i'm the type of guy to install a really powerful camshaft and gear really high. i dunno, let's help eachother out with facts cause this is a really good deal; a Predator 420cc costs over $400. But you know what they say: What you get is the price you pay.


1" shaft diameter. 1/4" keyway. 3/8" -24 bolt hole.
WEIGHT: 67 pounds dry. plus 1 gallon gas tank (1 gallon = 8 pounds Total weight 75pounds without torque converter on.
1 year warranty

---------- Post added at 08:39 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:35 PM ----------

p.s. if we figure things out and if i decide to i will need to sell my ARC predator standard length rod (for a fair $65)so i can buy a new one for the 420. i still have some thinking to do though and i'm an undecisive person so idk.

---------- Post added at 08:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:39 PM ----------

Thinking:
but do we really NEED a big engine? i mean there are 212'ers that can push over 60mph easy on these things.
HEY OP: have you thought about just getting a custom grind camshaft from Isky? they sell cams that are stronger than the black mamba jr. Reason most people only get the jr and not a custom grind is cause they dont understand what Lobe Seperation Angle, Duration, and Lift each specifically and individually do. More is not better if you don't understand it.

 

[Poboy kartman]

If I had to make a guess

Why don't we just stop here...because you are.

 

[sethro34]

HEY OP: have you thought about just getting a custom grind camshaft from Isky?

I dont know much at all about camshafts and am on a bit of a budget. And in reply to the 212cc doing 60mph, have any info on that?

P.S. that was the first time ive ever been called OP and after stalking reddit and imgur for the past few years, it makes me feel really special.

Thanks for the input!

 

[chancer]

Dude it just means "Original Poster"
Dont get a Big Head or nuthin. LOL

 

[FreeRunner15]

I dont know much at all about camshafts and am on a bit of a budget. And in reply to the 212cc doing 60mph, have any info on that?

P.S. that was the first time ive ever been called OP and after stalking reddit and imgur for the past few years, it makes me feel really special.

Thanks for the input!

There is few videos on youtube of karts doing that fast but if you look at minibikes there are plenty of vids floating around.

i was going to show an 80mph 212 proven with a stationary radar gun but had unacceptable language for this family friendly forum.(PMd you it)

This is my favorite video showing how quick and fast the 212 can get. its on a minibike but wow it's fast: https://youtu.be/goD0Wc22wGQ?t=19s too bad he was limited on road he could really get going.
The second guy : https://youtu.be/-3dHTKUB_zk?t=1m20s

---------- Post added at 12:12 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:02 AM ----------

Mods:
Should i even be saying stuff like this? You know..being a family forum and all?
i mean this person could be 8 years old trying to build a superkart now lol.

 

[Jrgunn5150]

My 212 goes 35 mph.

I buyed me one of dem dere 420 thing's.

 

[chancer]

Mods:
Should i even be saying stuff like this? You know..being a family forum and all?
i mean this person could be 8 years old trying to build a superkart now lol.

I think you are ok. Thanks for Caring.
Actually there is a new member just this week who IS in fact 13 yrs old.