Recommendation for best course of action. Jack shaft.

[emudryj]

If you already ordered a "kit"
YES, I did!!! great

It should come with new bearing hangars. They are really just GIANT washers. Here is what I would do, If I was doing what you are trying to do.

I would weld the new bearing hangars to the old bracket. Maybe even open up the old holes.
I thought about it but, I was concerned about the hanger misalignment being one of the causes of failure before, so I thought that starting from scratch should be better and I would not be double guessing latter.... the 2 hangers were coming with the kit anyways so better try to do it right once.

First put the bearing and shaft and hangars together. Then tack weld the hangars in place. This should help you get everything lined up straight and square. Be CAREFUL welding even tacking with the bearings in place. Then take it apart and securely weld the new hangars. Also since you are dealing with a jacked up bracket maybe add extra collars on each side of the bearing to keep everything in place.
This was exactly what I had in my mind... I'm not sure if is there any other better way to do it...
Also I thought about buying an extra set of hangers and place one on each out side, and 2 more on the inside. that way I could use 4 bearings.
Then I remembered I was not building a tank to go to war, and thought I was OVER doing it. Over doing things is good some times, but some other times is a disaster.
I doubt I could fit 2 bearings on each side and still have the right clearance for the sprockets...

In my opinion your Chicago welder should handle this job. If it is not working then stop before it looks like a bird pooped on it.

I found some great videos in youtube and I will practice on some old pieces of metal... By what I saw in those videos, it should be OK...

One out and one to go...

 

[Denny]

From what I see in the latest picture you may be able to save the bracket. Just grind off the old bird poop weld nice and clean and use the 3 hole triangular shaped bearing retainers with new self aligning bearings. Just make sure the bracket is not all bent up first.

Denny

 

[chancer]

I believe the new bearing hangars should be flat on one side. So when I made mine I used the flat side as an advantage to help align at least one side straight.
I do not recall the exact method, but using, tape measure, spacers, clips, clamps, triangle square, straight edge and patience. and one of those triangle welder magnet things. I was able to get everything aligned.
You at least have the advantage of a (hopefully) square mount to start with.

 

[emudryj]

Jackshaft alignment

Well, in my other thread about what to do with the destroyed jackshaft, I thought that tension on the chain and dirt to be the main cause of failure.
Somebody mentioned that misalignment could have also be a problem so before welding new hangers I went ahead and tried to make sure the bracket was squared... well is not.. at least one side isn't..
Here is the fairly good side


And here you can see the bad one


I looked for a washer that would perfectly fill the gap and hold the hanger straight while I weld some holding dots..


On each side of the bracket, around the hole to weld the hangers there were some holes that I have no clue what were those for originally. I used them to hold the hangers in place while I could make sure everything was straight. You can probably see the washer/spacer on the left side between the hanger and the bracket.


Once I had both hangers perfectly straight,



I ran the shaft with the bearings and made sure they were both at the exact same height from the base.



The question is... Am I missing something before I star welding? any other measure I should be looking at and I'm overseeing?
I took a very good time to make sure I had it as close to perfect as I could, but to be honest I'm not sure what are the tolerances... I do not know if I'm overdoing it, or under-doing it...

What do you guys think?

A couple more pictures of this monster waiting for some welding...

 

[mckutzy]

Don't weld anything. You have the the wrong idea for that.

You need these type of bearing flanges with the self aligning bearing.
No welding... And those bearings you have there aren't any good for this application.

That's what the holes are for... Bolting the flanges on.

 

[DHC]

Don't weld anything. You have the the wrong idea for that.

You need these type of bearing flanges with the self aligning bearing.
No welding... And those bearings you have there aren't any good for this application.

That's what the holes are for... Bolting the flanges on.

I think hes got it right... no sense in 'buying' parts when you can fab em to work. Tap bearings out to change em... I DO RECOMMEND BETTER sealed bearings though... would have to remove everything of the shaft before removing the actual shaft... but it'll work! Basically (after he welds what hes got), he would have a basic tube-like JShaft setup (w/out the tube/pipe) w/ a good amount of clearance from the mounting plate. The hangars you picd are used mainly on 1"+ shafts (from my experiences although I 'have' a seen 3/4" bearing fit those mounting plates... think thats what they're called). For 'his' application... should be fine (remember there are 100s of JShaft setups).

If the shaft is long enough for gears and the bearings are locked inplace in atleast 2 areas of the shaft, and the engine (normally) mounts to a plate that is afixed to the JS brackets/pipe/tube... then if the welds are good and strong,... you have yourself a JackShaft.

emudryj... make sure the keyway is long enough, on the shaft, to be able to lock the gear to the desired location... basically ensure key clearance to the mount/bearings for the gears...(if that makes sense)

 

[landuse]

Just make sure that when you weld that the hangers don't warp and get out of line.

 

[mckutzy]

Ya I guess he could go and weld it again... Just looking at all the work involved for setting up the bearings as he has it could have been cut to minutes, and have it easily serviced in the future.

With the current setup, if the current bearings are used and eventually wil wear quickly, it may cause more damage to the welded in housings, and a repeat of this situation.

The jackshaft of this length/size will have on an enormous amount of strain put on it, now focused on cheap bearings, not even self aligning.
The effort to aquire, alas is the easy part.. Point and click..

A typical bearing store would have this in what ever size he needs, at most requiring an additional visit to the hardware store to get nuts and bolts.

 

[emudryj]

Don't weld anything. You have the the wrong idea for that.

You need these type of bearing flanges with the self aligning bearing.
No welding... And those bearings you have there aren't any good for this application.

That's what the holes are for... Bolting the flanges on.

I wish I would have known that before!!!LOL

 

[emudryj]

I think hes got it right... no sense in 'buying' parts when you can fab em to work. Tap bearings out to change em...

those are the crappy bearings that came with the JS kit I bought to get the hangers and shaft, I just wanted to used them to align the JS and spot weld the hangers in place. That way if the bearing gets bad while welding the hanger, they will be replaced anyway when everything is done.

I DO RECOMMEND BETTER sealed bearings though... would have to remove everything of the shaft before removing the actual shaft... but it'll work!
Now that I see all the type of bearings out there, the ones I got do not look THAT good, but here they are... Should I get anything better than this?



Basically (after he welds what hes got), he would have a basic tube-like JShaft setup (w/out the tube/pipe) w/ a good amount of clearance from the mounting plate. The hangars you picd are used mainly on 1"+ shafts (from my experiences although I 'have' a seen 3/4" bearing fit those mounting plates... think thats what they're called).

The hangers came with the 3/4 shaft and bearings... so I assumed it would work.

For 'his' application... should be fine (remember there are 100s of JShaft setups).

If the shaft is long enough for gears and the bearings are locked inplace in atleast 2 areas of the shaft, and the engine (normally) mounts to a plate that is afixed to the JS brackets/pipe/tube... then if the welds are good and strong,... you have yourself a JackShaft.

emudryj... make sure the keyway is long enough, on the shaft, to be able to lock the gear to the desired location... basically ensure key clearance to the mount/bearings for the gears...(if that makes sense)

The shaft is 14" but i will need to make it 4" shorter. The original shaft was 10" but I could not find one kit with 10" shaft available at the time.

Not sure I totally understand your last paragraph about the length of the keyway... I have the ones that came with the kit... I will post some pictures later and you can tell me what you think.

 

[emudryj]

Ya I guess he could go and weld it again... Just looking at all the work involved for setting up the bearings as he has it could have been cut to minutes, and have it easily serviced in the future.

With the current setup, if the current bearings are used and eventually wil wear quickly, it may cause more damage to the welded in housings, and a repeat of this situation.

The jackshaft of this length/size will have on an enormous amount of strain put on it, now focused on cheap bearings, not even self aligning.
The effort to aquire, alas is the easy part.. Point and click..

A typical bearing store would have this in what ever size he needs, at most requiring an additional visit to the hardware store to get nuts and bolts.

I see your point and I have learned the hard way that some times is far better to spend a few more bucks to get it done right or to save time (which I usually do no have a lot of).
Only 2 problems with my situation.
#1 ignorance: Did not even know there were "self aligning bearings" let alone self aligning flanges.
I'm a newbie and slowly learning so sometimes is hard to go with the best option when you do not know it even exist.
#2 Risks: the simpler the solution, the lesser things to screw up. I would not know if I need to buy 2, 3, or 4 hole flanges. Are the holes distance standard? would I have enough clearance to fit the sprockets like they were before? Is the bearing replaceable or I need to change the whole thing?

 

[mckutzy]

I see we're kinda rehashing the same words over again... Kinda my fault, forgetting your previous thread...

There's 3/4" bearing just like I described with the same pattern as drilled in your jackshaft mounting bracket... I have the same bearings in my other chopper.

The bearings simply mount right up against the bracket with bolts and the cups/hangers/3 bolt hole thingys....
You will have all the space in the world and you can place the sprockets where ever they are needed, as they slide on the shaft.
You likely won't need to replace these in the next to near future.

 

[chancer]

Dang what a bummer. Your first thread clearly asked best advice and we did not get you the best answer till now. However either way will work; just get the better bearings than you have now.
Live and learn tho, Right. The best way to learn IS experience anyway.

 

[emudryj]

I see we're kinda rehashing the same words over again... Kinda my fault, forgetting your previous thread...

There's 3/4" bearing just like I described with the same pattern as drilled in your jackshaft mounting bracket... I have the same bearings in my other chopper.

The bearings simply mount right up against the bracket with bolts and the cups/hangers/3 bolt hole thingys....
You will have all the space in the world and you can place the sprockets where ever they are needed, as they slide on the shaft.
You likely won't need to replace these in the next to near future.

I'm really greatful for all your help!! YOu guys have been awesome...
It may not seem like much to you guys but for us the newbies is a huge deal...

Be sure that next time I have to deal with this I will go straight for the flanges... !!!

 

[emudryj]

Dang what a bummer. Your first thread clearly asked best advice and we did not get you the best answer till now. However either way will work; just get the better bearings than you have now.
Live and learn tho, Right. The best way to learn IS experience anyway.

Hey!!! no problem at all!!! the positive side is that i got do it the hard way now, and next time it would be so much easier... ALSO... I got a chance to use my welder again and learned a lot about what is capable off... so that is always a plus...!!!!
The funny things about this projects is that the end result is usually not the best part about it.., most often than I would like to admit, I could buy the same thing I'm building and it will take less effort and less money, but the feeling of doing it yourself and get it to work is amazing...

 

[Lucky7]

Hey!!! no problem at all!!! the positive side is that i got do it the hard way now, and next time it would be so much easier... ALSO... I got a chance to use my welder again and learned a lot about what is capable off... so that is always a plus...!!!!
The funny things about this projects is that the end result is usually not the best part about it.., most often than I would like to admit, I could buy the same thing I'm building and it will take less effort and less money, but the feeling of doing it yourself and get it to work is amazing...
View attachment 64217

I feel the same way

 

[crazykart]

I think we all do lol. I would rather do the hard route and fix something then go buy it new. Gives you a sense of accomplishment, and the next time something breaks you know how to take care of it.

You don't learn anything from just buying something pre-perfect, and we are a learning species.

 

[emudryj]

jack shaft kit assembly..

Based on your experience is there any better way to put this jackshaft together???

Here is a picture of the old shaft and how I'm putting it together..



I decided to put the bearings with the flange on the inside to prevent them from coming out...





Anything you would do different???

Feel free to criticize and throw ideas....!!!

Thanks in advance.

 

[landuse]

It looks good to me

 

[emudryj]

GREAT!!! just running it by you (more experienced) guys... you are able to foresee things that I can not even start to imagine...

I will go ahead and cut the shaft short, and re-assembly. Wish me luck!!!!