Idea for using a Vertical crank engine...

[suterman]

I was thinking about making a kart for my Nephew using a vertical crank 4.5 hp Briggs and stratton engine I have been given, its only been used for 4 months so should be in good order.

I realise the problem with VC engines is that they dont mix with horizontal axles in a conventional belt drive design.

I was wondering wether it would be possible to drive the cart using an electric motor (starter motor maybe) powered by an alternator that is in turn, driven by the engine.....

The accelerator pedal could be used to control both the engine throttle and a belt tensioner to act as a clutch between the electric motor and axle.

Has it been done before? what do you lot think?

I will come up with some plans soon if you think it's a good idea.

 

[Kaptain Krunch]

thats not a bad idea, you need a good alternator tho.

 

[suterman]

I have some 80 amp ones from Volvos that I have collected, I am a bit dumb when it comes to electrics though, I dont know how much power a starter motor uses, I am thinking a 4.5 hp motor would turn an alternator under 80 amps of load easily and a starter motor maybe puts out 1-2 hp.???

 

[Kaptain Krunch]

well i had to do a math problem once, it used real stats from an 85 chevy truck alternator. What we ended up figuring out was that the alternator used 5hp from the engine, now im sure the one from the volvo is probably less powerful, so you should be fine with the engine you have.

 

[suterman]

just did a little search and found this formula....

746 Watts = 1 Hp


Hp X 746 Watts
---------------- = AMPS
Voltage


10 Hp Motor At 220 Volts

Is

10 Hp X 746 Watts
---------------------- = 33.90 Amps
220 Volts


Amps X Volts = Watts






so 746w x 4.5hp = 3357 watts

then 3357 watts / 12 volts = 279.75 amps!! (the engine at running speed generates 279.75amps, plenty to turn the alternator under full load)

lets say I gear the pulleys to turn the alternator fast enough to make 80 amps...

80 amps x 12 volts = 960watts (just over 1 hp)

1 hp is not much, I doubt it would move very much.







I need to think more about it, maybe I could use two alternators or one much bigger one.




Perhaps I should consider using 24 volt equipment, I know where there is a 7.5 tonne truck that I could get the parts off.

 

[ed1380]

80amp alt x 12v = 960watts

according to kaptain you'll only be able to run one alt. so you're limited to 1hp. transfer of energy is not efficient

 

[Kaptain Krunch]

80amp alt x 12v = 960watts

according to kaptain you'll only be able to run one alt. so you're limited to 1hp. transfer of energy is not efficient

Yea, its very inefficient, the alternator for the 85 chevy was only 60% efficient or something like that, nowmatter what you will never get 100% efficiency though, some energy will always be lost through friction.

Instead of trying to get more than 1 alternator, why not try a generator head like this
(http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_21008_21008 )

It is a bit pricy but im sure you could find a cheap one, then you could use a 110 motor. Or an even better idea, find yourself a horizontal engine...i've seen them for free or very cheap on craigslist

 

[Kenny_McCormic]

You can make a V belt do a 90, just saying.

 

[slideways]

What about running a very short belt to a RAGB (right angle gear box) like a Peerless 700 used on rear engine riding mowers. Multiple speeds and reverse. Then you could gear it however you wanted with pullies and still have a brake/clutch.

OR: Use a centrifugal clutch on the motor and sprocket on the input shaft of the trans so all he has to do is rev up the motor to go.

 

[Kaptain Krunch]

What about running a very short belt to a RAGB (right angle gear box) like a Peerless 700 used on rear engine riding mowers. Multiple speeds and reverse. Then you could gear it however you wanted with pullies and still have a brake/clutch.

OR: Use a centrifugal clutch on the motor and sprocket on the input shaft of the trans so all he has to do is rev up the motor to go.

those lawnmower gear boxes are weak, and if run faster than they are rated for the cases will split.

 

[EagleTalons]

If you use a Peerless gearbox, it would be advised to put in different gears. On www.heymow.com they use 700 peerless's to race with.

 

[Kaptain Krunch]

If you use a Peerless gearbox, it would be advised to put in different gears. On www.heymow.com they use 700 peerless's to race with.

Wow i guess so, i was thinking of transaxles when i said they break real easy. I guess those peerless trannys are worth a bit, i've had one sitting under a bench for the past 5 years haha, maybe ill make a barstool with it?

 

[slideways]

They're plenty strong for a kart.. especially one made for a younger kid. They have a buildup on how to "blueprint" one on that site.. to me it doesnt seem worth it unless you are putting it through constant race conditions.

Before i knew what they were i had one on an old Bolens rear engine rider.. we swapped the pullies and actually had to compression start it to ride it. It did well over 30mph but was quite a handful. Ended up twisting the front axle and we scrapped it.

Now i have a Deere S82 i'd like to start playing with in similar format..

 

[Kaptain Krunch]

They're plenty strong for a kart.. especially one made for a younger kid. They have a buildup on how to "blueprint" one on that site.. to me it doesnt seem worth it unless you are putting it through constant race conditions.

Before i knew what they were i had one on an old Bolens rear engine rider.. we swapped the pullies and actually had to compression start it to ride it. It did well over 30mph but was quite a handful. Ended up twisting the front axle and we scrapped it.

Now i have a Deere S82 i'd like to start playing with in similar format..

Yea, actually just a few months ago i pull out the tranny from under the bench and cleaned all the grease out and before i use it (if i do) i would fill it with tranny fluid, the gears were all steel i was just afraid of the case splitting. I'm also thinking of making some type of fast lawnmower, once we move into a bigger house i can bring over the 2 riding mowers at my dads house, one 8hp, one 11hp (pretty much new), and one 18hp v twin which im siked about.

 

[EagleTalons]

Yea, actually just a few months ago i pull out the tranny from under the bench and cleaned all the grease out and before i use it (if i do) i would fill it with tranny fluid, the gears were all steel i was just afraid of the case splitting. I'm also thinking of making some type of fast lawnmower, once we move into a bigger house i can bring over the 2 riding mowers at my dads house, one 8hp, one 11hp (pretty much new), and one 18hp v twin which im siked about.

I wouldn't fill it with tranny fluid. The seals on it a meant to hold thicker grease and the fluid will slowly trickle out.

 

[Kaptain Krunch]

I wouldn't fill it with tranny fluid. The seals on it a meant to hold thicker grease and the fluid will slowly trickle out.

Permatex

 

[Ec1564]

I am currently designing a hydro-tranny for using vertical shaft engines. It will be designed with automotive parts that are easy to get from junkyards. As long as you can drill and weld you should be able to build this transmission. THe 1st test was a very messy sucess and showed the design will work!! Hopefully it will be a 3 speed fully automatic shifting! If not then manual shifting it will be.

 

[EagleTalons]

You mean hydrostatic? How would you get gears with a hydrostatic?

 

[Kaptain Krunch]

Maybe he means its always in high and just has a clutch? The closest thing to a manual hydro would be using the lever to adjust fluid pressure.

 

[PitBoss]

well i had to do a math problem once, it used real stats from an 85 chevy truck alternator. What we ended up figuring out was that the alternator used 5hp from the engine, now im sure the one from the volvo is probably less powerful, so you should be fine with the engine you have.

Chances are that the Volvo is more powerful than that chevy. In an 85 they typically used 60amp alts.

Also a starter motor should not be used to power a kart. It is designed for cranking and that is about it. After about ten seconds of use you run the chances of damaging the brushes. You would really need to get an eletric motor.