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How does that even work?????

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Poboy kartman

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Ok....So I started to respond to a thread with a detailed explanation of how an infernal combustion engine works........and then I thought. ...why not a whole thread on that......and let it be open to any other contraption? ???.

Who knows? ????? We might learn something. ........in the meantime. ....we can have fun arguing. ........
 

Poboy kartman

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Well this is to explore people's perceptions of the cause and effect of modern machinery. ....the principles and theory behind their operation. ....and just as importantly. ...and hopefully. ...respected. ...individual opions....concerning this......

What really brought this to mind was Tony's explanation as an engine as an air pump........

Which is 100% correct.....but there are an infinite number of people that build high performance engines. ....but don't actually know that....they just know put part A with part B......

So this is to explore the not so obvious nuances of how things work......

And hopefully we can all get a little bit more enlightened. ....knowledge is power. ...and I'm a 98lb. Weakling..........:lolgoku:
 

OzFab

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What really brought this to mind was Tony's explanation as an engine as an air pump........

Ah, I know the post you mean...

Cover your mouth with your hand, now take a deep breath in & out; hard work isn't it? That's what you're engine is doing...

Now take a deep breath in then cover your mouth & breathe out; that's what your engine is doing with a hi flow air filter & stock muffler...

"The better an engine can breathe, the better it will perform"

As for the jet & e tube, you need to let the engine tell you what it needs once it can breathe correctly, otherwise, you'll only be force feeding it which will hinder performance

"More fuel is not always the answer..."

I was discussing that with my mechanic just yesterday & he pointed out that I left out a rather important detail; what I should've said was "Cover your mouth with your hand, now take a deep breath in & out; hard work isn't it? That's what you're engine is doing... NOW START RUNNING!"
 

itsid

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Ok....So I started to respond to a thread with a detailed explanation of how an infernal combustion engine works........and then I thought. ...why not a whole thread on that......and let it be open to any other contraption? ???.

Who knows? ????? We might learn something. ........in the meantime. ....we can have fun arguing. ........
what for..??

All combustion engines work on black magic;
fiery, funky, noisy magic.
electric motors on the other hand.. white magic..
still witchcraft though!
:stir:
how an infernal combustion engine works
:lolgoku:
'sid
 

OzFab

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"Opinions are like noses, everyone has one & they're all different"

Alex, you can continue to think that way but, there is a reason for everything, random doesn't exist (& that is my opinion...)
 

itsid

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Uhm.. wait..
Are you saying that "how an enigine works" is a matter of opinion?
that'd be something we really should discuss :D

'sid
 

Poboy kartman

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Well.......the whole world is either opinion or binary. ...depending on your view......

In reality. ....the whole world is binary. ...the genius of the computer and the whole world can be reduced to that.......1 or 0.......yes or no.......+ or-.......

This is scientific fact. .....every thing else is perception Or opinion.........

The world doesn't have gray......only black and white. ....it's our perception that creates gray.......
 

Poboy kartman

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Uhm.. wait..
Are you saying that "how an enigine works" is a matter of opinion?
that'd be something we really should discuss :D

'sid

Exactly! !!!!! While that it works is definitely an undisputed fact.....the nuances of why are in large part opinion......and many times misguided ones.....
 

OzFab

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Ok, I started off by comparing an engine to an air pump so, let's dig a little deeper...

Porting & Polishing

There is a simple explanation but, in my usual form, I'm going for the long road :lolgoku:

When Airbus were developing their A380, test showed that a twin vortex was produced at the tips of the wings, which produces turbulence, causing the plane to be unstable in flight; the only solution they could find was to extend the wings, making them extremely long & disproportional to the rest of the plane... until they observed an eagle in flight at close range; they noticed that, when gliding, the tips of the eagles wings folded up...

When they applied this new knowledge to the planes wings, they realised they could make the wings shorter than originally designed, negate the turbulence & keep the plane airbourne much easier...

The key there is turbulence! Have you ever seen the inside surface of an engines intake & exhaust ports? Heads are "rough cast" which is exactly that, rough! We all know that a smooth surface (like glass) has little surface resistance but, the rougher a surface gets, the more resistance it has...

In a wind tunnel, a sheet of glass will produce an almost perfect flow whereas, a sheet of 24grit sandpaper (just for example, you wouldn't actually do it) will break up the flow to an unrecognisable state. The question is why? & the answer is simple...

When the wind hits the high grit points, it can't flow naturally & creates a vortex, which creates turbulence; do that a few hundred times, then bounce every vortex into one another & you quickly have a big mess...

That exact same thing is happening in your engines ports; the air is bouncing off the rough cast marks & bouncing all over the place; by removing all the high points, you not only increase the size of the port, you reduce turbulence, creating a cleaner, more direct path for the air/fuel to flow &, therefore, make the engine more responsive, powerful & economical because the air can flow much faster...

Which, of course, leads back to

"The better an engine can breathe, the better it will perform"
 

Poboy kartman

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Ok, I started off by comparing an engine to an air pump so, let's dig a little deeper...

Porting & Polishing

There is a simple explanation but, in my usual form, I'm going for the long road :lolgoku:

When Airbus were developing their A380, test showed that a twin vortex was produced at the tips of the wings, which produces turbulence, causing the plane to be unstable in flight; the only solution they could find was to extend the wings, making them extremely long & disproportional to the rest of the plane... until they observed an eagle in flight at close range; they noticed that, when gliding, the tips of the eagles wings folded up...

When they applied this new knowledge to the planes wings, they realised they could make the wings shorter than originally designed, negate the turbulence & keep the plane airbourne much easier...

The key there is turbulence! Have you ever seen the inside surface of an engines intake & exhaust ports? Heads are "rough cast" which is exactly that, rough! We all know that a smooth surface (like glass) has little surface resistance but, the rougher a surface gets, the more resistance it has...

In a wind tunnel, a sheet of glass will produce an almost perfect flow whereas, a sheet of 24grit sandpaper (just for example, you wouldn't actually do it) will break up the flow to an unrecognisable state. The question is why? & the answer is simple...

When the wind hits the high grit points, it can't flow naturally & creates a vortex, which creates turbulence; do that a few hundred times, then bounce every vortex into one another & you quickly have a big mess...

That exact same thing is happening in your engines ports; the air is bouncing off the rough cast marks & bouncing all over the place; by removing all the high points, you not only increase the size of the port, you reduce turbulence, creating a cleaner, more direct path for the air/fuel to flow &, therefore, make the engine more responsive, powerful & economical because the air can flow much faster...

Which, of course, leads back to

And so it begins. ........

Yes.....in the most general of terms.....this is true......however. ...as discussed in a previous thread.....the incoming intake charge relies on the velocity of the exiting exhaust charge to fill the cylinder. .......

So......a certain amount of restriction is needed to create velocity. ...ie...a pipe....

Now. .....on the intake side...a certain amount of turbulence is absolutely necessary or the engine could not operate. ....we call part of this system device a carburetor. ...the other an intake....so....if there was no turbulence on the intake side. ...an engine would have little or no performance. .
 

itsid

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Ok, I started off by comparing an engine to an air pump so, let's dig a little deeper...

Porting & Polishing

There is a simple explanation but, in my usual form, I'm going for the long road :lolgoku:
.......
Which, of course, leads back to

Isn't that a bit far down the road already?

to my understanding the initial question was "how an engine works"
So, I think we (well.. you..see above ;)) should cover the basics first.

intake, compression, combustion, exhaust.. crankshaft rotation forces, inertia of the flywheel... you know.. basics :D

then the slightly advanced things.. ignition and it's timing, fuel(s) etc.

And then as soon as that's covered it's a good thing to talk about details, like sharkskincoated ports, fireslotted flatheads, and fancy stuff like that :D

but maybe I got the question wrong :( *shrugs*

'sid

PS splitting fun from facts .. sorry for the DP.
 

itsid

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Ahh okay...
I just misunderstood.. well then nevermind :D

'sid

PS Tony.. I'm sorry, maybe it's a good idea to extract the valuable information and put it aside in a stick-worthy thread on it's own; I think I ruined this one already ;)
 

OzFab

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....if there was no turbulence on the intake side. ...an engine would have little or no performance. .

That's why I said

...you reduce turbulence...

PS Tony.. I'm sorry, maybe it's a good idea to extract the valuable information and put it aside in a stick-worthy thread on it's own; I think I ruined this one already ;)

I disagree, you make a good argument as to why such info is important :thumbsup:
 

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It has been prove on a dyno that a perfectly smooth port hurts HP and torque on a engine with a carb. But with port fuel injection it helps it. You need a little turbulence to help keep the fuel from falling out of the airstream and puddling in the port. Now the combustion chamber another area where turbulence is necessary. Flow through open valve turbulence is bad. :stir:

Denny

Remember for each and every
action there is a equal and opposite reaction.
:feedtroll:
 

fowler

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Suck squeeze bang blow

Thats all it is

Port and polish
Thats why I stick to deisel


Make intake as big as possible
make exhaust as big as possible
Adjust fuel pump to duit
 

Poboy kartman

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It has been prove on a dyno that a perfectly smooth port hurts HP and torque on a engine with a carb. But with port fuel injection it helps it. You need a little turbulence to help keep the fuel from falling out of the airstream and puddling in the port. Now the combustion chamber another area where turbulence is necessary. Flow through open valve turbulence is bad. :stir:

Denny

Remember for each and every
action there is a equal and opposite reaction.
:feedtroll:

Well the first part of this post was exactly what I was referring to......

The second part could use a little more discussion. ........

It's not really turbulence you want in the combustion chamber. ....but the proper movement of the air/fuel mixture in and out......

Just like a carburetor. ...the ports have a neck-down area just below the seat...."Venturi Effect?".......that may be the turbulence you speak of????

Valve shrouding and quench are the more important characteristics we should look at there though......
 
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