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School shooting...

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B.M.800

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I would encourage all of you, even if you do not believe, put that aside and say a prayer for the victims of this tragedy.
I believe even just a simple prayer from many can and will make a difference.

Thanks.
 

machinist@large

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Who murders innocent children that they don't even know? Especially small children? The teachers and other staff are horrific enough, but children as young as 5?

It certainly won't help the survivors; but if there is any justice in this world, there should be a special place in Hell waiting for the gunman.
 

Doc Sprocket

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Amen, brother. The lowest form of scum. Those poor families- there's no coming back from this. I feel great sympathy for the other students. You don't wintess something like that, and come out "okay".
 

OzFab

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I just heard about this; not to make light but it makes Columbine look like a game :worried2:

This guy obvioulsy has serious mental issues. No, I'm not trying to justify his actions; there's other ways to get help that don't involve killing innocent kids. Unfortunately, we'll never know...
 

Doc Sprocket

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How unfortunate it is that the story always ends, "before turning the gun on himself". If he turned the gun on himself first, things would turn out a lot better.

Situations like this invariably result in re-heating the gun laws issues.
 

B.M.800

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How unfortunate it is that the story always ends, "before turning the gun on himself". If he turned the gun on himself first, things would turn out a lot better.

Situations like this invariably result in re-heating the gun laws issues.

And now that I own a firearm, I think about about what could happen with all these anti gun clowns and stuff like this...
 

HaM551

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but then again, compare America to Australia or anywhere else that has much harder gun laws or restricted gun licencing and less of a gun culture. They don't really have the same problem, yet I'm sure the criminals are still the same in all places.
(just my thoughts)
 

souperman000

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"If you haven't been reunited yet, there will be no more reunitings." Yeesh.

Lets not turn this into a gun debate, we have had lots of threads for those in the past.
 

FatCat

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Wow what a coward. Takes a special kind of piece of **** to shoot a bunch of k-4 children. Any kid for that matter. :mad:Very sad indeed.
 

devino246

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but then again, compare America to Australia or anywhere else that has much harder gun laws or restricted gun licencing and less of a gun culture. They don't really have the same problem, yet I'm sure the criminals are still the same in all places.
(just my thoughts)

America is just a culture completely different than any other. The gun laws aren't what's causing people to go on killing-sprees. American society has a way of making people crazy, for what ever reason, and mental healthcare has been cast aside.
 

machinist@large

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America is just a culture completely different than any other. The gun laws aren't what's causing people to go on killing-sprees. American society has a way of making people crazy, for what ever reason, and mental healthcare has been cast aside.

Taking gun laws off the table for the moment, American society has some real issues that most of the country just refuses to grow up and deal with.

As for mental healthcare, I can only speak for the State of Michigan; my Mother used to work in the State system back when it was still one of the best in the country. That all changed when Gov. John Engler was elected.

One of the tenants of his terms in office was that if it was good for the people, then it cost to much (just like our currant Gov.). Roads, healthcare, education... that's to expensive. The only thing he thought we needed more of was prisons; which is where 90% of the former patients from the State mental health Hospitals that he closed wound up. Throw them out on the street, without any supervision or their medications (the counties were just supposed to magically pick op the slack, with no facilities, staff, budget, or the lead time to even try to come up with anything), guess where they end up? The prison system.

It cost the State between 1/6 to 1/4 to take care of those people in a facility that was set up for their care than it cost to house them as inmates; on the other hand, the money we saved by putting them out on the street let us build 3 brand spanking new prisons, one of which is still being leased by a private company to house out of state prisoners, because we never had the inmates to fill it in the first place. But hey,being tough on crime got him 2 terms. And don't even get me started on what He's doing now that He's out of office.........:censored:
 

bighead

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Can we just ban crazy people? Lets ban Heroin and drunk driving as well. If we raise the legal limit on blood alcohol from .08 to 2.4 we could eliminate drunk driving overnight. Makes just as much sense as gun bans.
 

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bighead

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The History of Gun Control

In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control. From 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

In 1911, Turkey established gun control. From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945, a total of 13 million Jews and others who were unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated.

China established gun control in 1935. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

Guatemala established gun control in 1964. From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

Uganda established gun control in 1970. From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

Cambodia established gun control in 1956. From 1975 to 1977, one million educated people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

Let’s see how many defenseless people were exterminated in the 20th Century because of gun control:

Country Year(s) People
Exterminated
USSR 1929-1953 20,000,000
Turkey 1915-1917 1,500,000
Germany 1939-1945 13,000,000
China 1948-1952 20,000,000
Guatemala 1964-1981 100,000
Uganda 1971-1979 300,000
Cambodia 1975-1977 1,000,000

Total: 56 million.

Governments around the World need a history lesson.

It has now been 12 months since gun owners in Australia were forced by new law to surrender 640,381 personal firearms to be destroyed by their own
government, a program costing Australian taxpayers more than $500 million dollars. The first year results are now in:

1) Australia-wide, homicides are up 3.2 percent.
2) Australia-wide, assaults are up 8.6 percent.
3) Australia-wide, armed robberies are up 44 percent (yes, 44 percent!)
4) In the state of Victoria alone, homicides with firearms are now up 300 percent.

Note, that while the law-abiding citizens turned them in, the criminals did not, and criminals still possess their guns! While figures over the previous 25 years showed a steady decrease in armed robbery with firearms, this has changed drastically upward in the past 12 months, since criminals now are guaranteed that their prey is unarmed.

There has also been a dramatic increase in break-ins and assaults of the ELDERLY. Australian politicians are at a loss to explain how public safety has decreased, after such monumental effort and expense was expended in successfully ridding Australian society of guns.

The Australian experience and the other historical facts above prove it.

You won’t see this data on the US evening news, or hear politicians disseminating this information. Guns in the hands of honest citizens save lives and property and, yes, gun-control laws adversely affect only the law-abiding citizens.

Take note my fellow Americans, before it’s too late! The next time someone talks in favor of gun control, please remind them of this history lesson.

With guns, we are ‘citizens.’ Without them, we are ’subjects.’

http://old.postworthy.com/?p=39114

********************************

It is a common fantasy that gun bans make society safer. In 2002 -- five years after enacting its gun ban -- the Australian Bureau of Criminology acknowledged there is no correlation between gun control and the use of firearms in violent crime. In fact, the percent of murders committed with a firearm was the highest it had ever been in 2006 (16.3 percent), says the D.C. Examiner.

Even Australia's Bureau of Crime Statistics and Research acknowledges that the gun ban had no significant impact on the amount of gun-involved crime:

In 2006, assault rose 49.2 percent and robbery 6.2 percent.
Sexual assault -- Australia's equivalent term for rape -- increased 29.9 percent.
Overall, Australia's violent crime rate rose 42.2 percent.

Moreover, Australia and the United States -- where no gun-ban exists -- both experienced similar decreases in murder rates:

Between 1995 and 2007, Australia saw a 31.9 percent decrease; without a gun ban, America's rate dropped 31.7 percent.
During the same time period, all other violent crime indices increased in Australia: assault rose 49.2 percent and robbery 6.2 percent.
Sexual assault -- Australia's equivalent term for rape -- increased 29.9 percent.
Overall, Australia's violent crime rate rose 42.2 percent.
At the same time, U.S. violent crime decreased 31.8 percent: rape dropped 19.2 percent; robbery decreased 33.2 percent; aggravated assault dropped 32.2 percent.
Australian women are now raped over three times as often as American women.

While this doesn't prove that more guns would impact crime rates, it does prove that gun control is a flawed policy. Furthermore, this highlights the most important point: gun banners promote failed policy regardless of the consequences to the people who must live with them, says the Examiner.

Source: Howard Nemerov, "Australia experiencing more violent crime despite gun ban," D.C. Examiner, April 8, 2009: http://www.ncpa.org/sub/dpd/index.php?Article_ID=17847

********************************

The odd thing about gun control is that a culture of censorship often increases after anti-gun laws fail to deliver. So, it would be hard for an Australian writer to submit a piece on Switzerland’s pro-gun ownership culture and low gun crime rate because our media isn’t “ready” to accept opposing views. Only a “thought control” culture can sustain a “gun control” culture.

At times like these, it’s easy to fall prey to post-massacre opportunists. Still, reason and not emotion is our best guide. The facts (to quote the Sporting Shooters’ Association of Australia) are as follows:

Between July 1 1997 and 30 June 1999 nine in ten offenders of firearm-related homicide were unlicensed firearm owners.

Raw data from the Australian Bureau of Statistics (ABS) reveals that while suicide by firearms is continuing to decrease from a high in the 1980s, suicide by hanging steadily increased throughout the 1990s and increased for three consecutive years after the 1996 buy-back.

In the year 2002/2003, over 85% of firearms used to commit murder were unregistered. Recent legislation introduced by all states further strengthened controls on access to legitimate handguns by sporting shooters.

The AIC’s ‘Homicide in Australia: 2006-07 National Homicide Monitoring Program annual report’ stated that 93 per cent of firearms involved in homicides had never been registered and were used by unlicensed individuals.

Gun control is a myth, or rather a mountain of myths sustained by campaigning elites in secure buildings with armed bodyguards.

America, don’t repeat Australia’s gun control mistake: http://dailycaller.com/2011/01/19/america-dont-repeat-australias-gun-control-mistake/#ixzz2FBztmIkq

******************************
 

OzFab

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It has now been 12 months since gun owners in Australia were forced by new law to surrender 640,381 personal firearms to be destroyed by their own
government, a program costing Australian taxpayers more than $500 million dollars. The first year results are now in:

1) Australia-wide, homicides are up 3.2 percent.
2) Australia-wide, assaults are up 8.6 percent.
3) Australia-wide, armed robberies are up 44 percent (yes, 44 percent!)
4) In the state of Victoria alone, homicides with firearms are now up 300 percent.

Note, that while the law-abiding citizens turned them in, the criminals did not, and criminals still possess their guns! While figures over the previous 25 years showed a steady decrease in armed robbery with firearms, this has changed drastically upward in the past 12 months, since criminals now are guaranteed that their prey is unarmed.

There has also been a dramatic increase in break-ins and assaults of the ELDERLY. Australian politicians are at a loss to explain how public safety has decreased, after such monumental effort and expense was expended in successfully ridding Australian society of guns.

The Australian experience and the other historical facts above prove it.

You won’t see this data on the US evening news, or hear politicians disseminating this information. Guns in the hands of honest citizens save lives and property and, yes, gun-control laws adversely affect only the law-abiding citizens.

Take note my fellow Americans, before it’s too late! The next time someone talks in favor of gun control, please remind them of this history lesson.

With guns, we are ‘citizens.’ Without them, we are ’subjects.’

http://old.postworthy.com/?p=39114

********************************

It is a common fantasy that gun bans make society safer. In 2002 -- five years after enacting its gun ban -- the Australian Bureau of Criminology acknowledged there is no correlation between gun control and the use of firearms in violent crime. In fact, the percent of murders committed with a firearm was the highest it had ever been in 2006 (16.3 percent), says the D.C. Examiner.

Even Australia's Bureau of Crime Statistics and Research acknowledges that the gun ban had no significant impact on the amount of gun-involved crime:

In 2006, assault rose 49.2 percent and robbery 6.2 percent.
Sexual assault -- Australia's equivalent term for rape -- increased 29.9 percent.
Overall, Australia's violent crime rate rose 42.2 percent.

Moreover, Australia and the United States -- where no gun-ban exists -- both experienced similar decreases in murder rates:

Between 1995 and 2007, Australia saw a 31.9 percent decrease; without a gun ban, America's rate dropped 31.7 percent.
During the same time period, all other violent crime indices increased in Australia: assault rose 49.2 percent and robbery 6.2 percent.
Sexual assault -- Australia's equivalent term for rape -- increased 29.9 percent.
Overall, Australia's violent crime rate rose 42.2 percent.
At the same time, U.S. violent crime decreased 31.8 percent: rape dropped 19.2 percent; robbery decreased 33.2 percent; aggravated assault dropped 32.2 percent.
Australian women are now raped over three times as often as American women.

While this doesn't prove that more guns would impact crime rates, it does prove that gun control is a flawed policy. Furthermore, this highlights the most important point: gun banners promote failed policy regardless of the consequences to the people who must live with them, says the Examiner.

Source: Howard Nemerov, "Australia experiencing more violent crime despite gun ban," D.C. Examiner, April 8, 2009: http://www.ncpa.org/sub/dpd/index.php?Article_ID=17847

********************************

The odd thing about gun control is that a culture of censorship often increases after anti-gun laws fail to deliver. So, it would be hard for an Australian writer to submit a piece on Switzerland’s pro-gun ownership culture and low gun crime rate because our media isn’t “ready” to accept opposing views. Only a “thought control” culture can sustain a “gun control” culture.

At times like these, it’s easy to fall prey to post-massacre opportunists. Still, reason and not emotion is our best guide. The facts (to quote the Sporting Shooters’ Association of Australia) are as follows:

Between July 1 1997 and 30 June 1999 nine in ten offenders of firearm-related homicide were unlicensed firearm owners.

Raw data from the Australian Bureau of Statistics (ABS) reveals that while suicide by firearms is continuing to decrease from a high in the 1980s, suicide by hanging steadily increased throughout the 1990s and increased for three consecutive years after the 1996 buy-back.

In the year 2002/2003, over 85% of firearms used to commit murder were unregistered. Recent legislation introduced by all states further strengthened controls on access to legitimate handguns by sporting shooters.

The AIC’s ‘Homicide in Australia: 2006-07 National Homicide Monitoring Program annual report’ stated that 93 per cent of firearms involved in homicides had never been registered and were used by unlicensed individuals.

Gun control is a myth, or rather a mountain of myths sustained by campaigning elites in secure buildings with armed bodyguards.

America, don’t repeat Australia’s gun control mistake: http://dailycaller.com/2011/01/19/america-dont-repeat-australias-gun-control-mistake/#ixzz2FBztmIkq

******************************

Australia has only had 9 mass shootings in the last cantury, the worst being Port Arthur with 35 fatalities & 21 injured; the US has had 1/3 of that in the last 2 years.

Granted, the population numbers are vastly different, add to that there has been an massive increase in single shootings & drive-by's (13 in Sydney alone this year, & they're just the ones we heard about) but, every one was gang related & 90% of gang members are either Asian or middle eastern.

True, gun control only works if everyone cooperates but, why would criminals cooperate with that particular law when they don't obey the others?
 

B.M.800

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True, gun control only works if everyone cooperates but, why would criminals cooperate with that particular law when they don't obey the others?

I think this is what these pro gun ban people and governments dont understand. They assume every person, law abiding and crooked will comply with their hoky laws...
Well guess what... it dont work and its the law abiding citizens has to suffer. :ack2:
 
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