how many know about hho?

[gvfc2]

Me and my brother are making a hho generator. I'm gonna put one in my 85' jeep cherokee. Also going to try to make a cutting torch with it. this build will be fun. This time I will try to update it more than my others.

 

[landuse]

Sorry, it is a totally new concept to me. I would be interested in your build though

 

[gvfc2]

well if you wanna know about it. i can explain alittle bit. i dont really wanna explain unless people wanna know

 

[landuse]

well if you wanna know about it. i can explain alittle bit. i dont really wanna explain unless people wanna know

OK, explain. This is DIY, and we will all be interested

 

[gvfc2]

ok just so you know i am alittle drunk. ok do you guys no about electrolysis to rid of rust? well same concept without the extra metal to get of the rust. pretty much just 2 rods. 1 positive and 1 negative and water. thats it. the current going thru the water makes the 2 parts hydrogen and 1 part oxygen.

oxygen is made at the positive and it rusts pretty fast fast while the negative doesnt doesnt rust at all. i will add more in the morning aswell as a youtube vid explaining it

 

[souperman000]

I have heard of them. Saw one on TV a while ago.

 

[devino246]

HHO is a bit of BS. Look into the Law of Conservation of Mass...

 

[exenos]

So basically you break up the water.

 

[devino246]

So basically you break up the water.

Yep, which requires a relatively large amount of electrical energy (the same amount of energy produced from burning the oxygen and hydrogen produced), which has to come from somewhere.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTEX38bQ-2w

 

[r_chez_08]

I can only see hydrogen as a viable fuel if it is a waste gas from another process.

 

[gvfc2]

you can actually justify pruducing hho in your vehicle to burn as an additive to the air intake. increases gas mileage and it can be run off 12 volts. so it would use no more electricity to produce the hho as the alternator can make. you can make hho on a level of 12 volts 6 amps. im testing with a battery charger to get a good plate setup. it works well for testing.



this here hes only running it off 2 car batteries and look at that thing go.

 

[devino246]

you can actually justify pruducing hho in your vehicle to burn as an additive to the air intake. increases gas mileage and it can be run off 12 volts. so it would use no more electricity to produce the hho as the alternator can make. you can make hho on a level of 12 volts 6 amps. im testing with a battery charger to get a good plate setup. it works well for testing.

this here hes only running it off 2 car batteries and look at that thing go.

You're missing half of the electrical equation: AMPS. Any idea how many amps a car battery can output? 350-800, depending on the battery. That's a HUGE amount of energy. You can't get something for nothing; physics doesn't work that way. The more draw you put on the charging system, the more work your engine has to do. Let's look at an example:

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120 amp alternator, outputting 14 volts

120x14= 1,680 watts

1 horsepower = 746 watts.

1680/746 = 2.25 hp

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Electrolysis, under ideal conditions, requires 143 kJ of energy per mole of water. Ideal conditions include supplying 1.48V to the water. So, your other 12.52V are just heating up the water.

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Hydrogen atomic mass: 1.00794
Oxygen atomic mass: 15.9994

2(1.00794)+15.9994= 18.01528

Mass of 1 mole of water: 18.01528g

One ounce of water weighs 29.574g

29.574/18.01528= 1.64160 moles per ounce

1.64160x143= 234.74972 kJ per ounce

Now, Joule is a measure of energy, while Watt is a measure of power. Watt= Joule/second

177.6 x S =234.74972 kJ

S = 1.32178

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Assuming my math is correct, you're drawing 177.6W in order to break apart 1 ounce of water every 1.32178 seconds. Don't think you're going to be producing a whole lot of gas at that rate. Buuut, why don't we figure out just how much?

 

[devino246]

Density of oxygen at room temperature: 0.001429 g/cm3

Density of hydrogen at room temperature: 0.00008988 g/cm3

One mole of water weighs 18.01528g, two moles of hydrogen and one mole of oxygen in that

1.00794x2= 2.01588g of hydrogen per mole of water

15.9994g of oxygen per mole of water

1.64160 moles per ounce of water

2.01588x1.64160= 3.30926g of hydrogen per onuce

15.9994x1.64160= 26.26461g of oxygen per ounce

3.30926/0.00008988= 36818.64708 cm3 or 0.0368186471 m3

26.26461/0.001429= 18379.71308 cm3 or 0.0183797131 m3

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For those that prefer SAE measurements, that's 1.30024 cubic foot of hydrogen and 0.649073 cubic foot of oxygen every 1.32178 seconds! That might have an effect at idle, but when you consider that a car may consume upwards of 5 cubic feet per second at cruise, and that my calculations are using numbers in ideal conditions, that's not crap.

Electrolysis is a cool experiment, no doubt, but it has no place on an automobile.

 

[crazzywolfie]

i still wouldn't mind try running one in my truck even though the math looks bad. i got about 5 decent size sheets of stainless steel waiting. the only major problem i seem to have is trying to get a container that can be cleaned once in a while but will seal good.

 

[landuse]

Wow, maths got a bit too heavy for me there.

 

[jman231994]

I completely agree with Devino, except if it were to be taken a bit further....

If the power to run the electrolysis was provided by solar cells, and a larger hho generator were used to produce an amount which might have some effect. Then and only then might it become of use to increase efficiency and cleanliness. Though the solar panels would be larger than the cars roof area....so for the time being its pretty useless

EDIT: We had a little foray into this area a while back, the thread was aimed at fuel cells but ended up being about hho generators and the like. http://www.diygokarts.com/vb/showthread.php?t=15110

 

[gvfc2]

wow that math made me not want to do it anymore... but its not gonna stop me. but that does provide alot of useful info. thanks for that. i will test it and if its not really working for me i wont use it anymore. i could just it it to blow stuff up. but any ways it is proven to increase fuel mileage buy atleast 10%. of course i havent proven it but i will try.

@crazzywolfie if you got any extra SS i would be happy to take it.

I feel like im missing something to put in here but i cant remember what i was going to say

 

[jman231994]

Yea if you're happy to do it for fun and not seriously expecting too much then go for it, should be a decent fun project. Document what you are doing and do heaps of tests, some things in nature are just quirks that seem to defy physics but actually have a less obvious reasoning.....this could be one of them, but I doubt it, if it is then your research can prove it to us....if it isnt then you've had a fun time making it

 

[gvfc2]

if it proves to defy physics then i guess i would be a scientist lol. if it does then i would have made a huge break thru and the US gov would immediately try to buy it from me.

but anyways as soon as a get a couple batteries and some metal i will document everything. anyone wanna donate to help the cause? haha

 

[jman231994]

Haha SEEM to defy physics....I meant more along the lines of us missing some part of the science behind it that makes it efficient......still doubt it would happen though

As far as I know, and I didnt do chem, Devino has it spot on. Even used metric measurements.....I wont go there though hahahahaha