No Bullying? No, BULL-ying!

[91blaze]

So you automatically assume that every 7th grader is incapable of thinking about the future. I should let you know then that im attending the same school and same career field that i wrote about going to in an essay i wrote in 7th grade.

I make friends quite well despite what you think. Every person ive met in my current school is friends with me now. All my bullies from the past are friends now.

 

[augidog]

and let us not forget the cyber-bully, a wholly new phenomenon of the modern world.

Oh go back to your hole.

thank you for proving my point with an insult disguised as discussion...apparently, your freedom to express yourself supercedes mine. your inability to express yourself intelligently and with sensitivity speaks to my main message of tribal responsibility, clearly the tribe hasn't done right by you & now it looks like you'll direct your frustration at anyone who'll stand still for it.

i felt ethically obligated to speak up about what i saw here, and now that i've done it i don't feel obligated to defend myself or my right to my opinion.

 

[FatCat]

and let us not forget the cyber-bully, a wholly new phenomenon of the modern world.

thank you for proving my point with an insult disguised as discussion...apparently, your freedom to express yourself supercedes mine. your inability to express yourself intelligently and with sensitivity speaks to my main message of tribal responsibility, clearly the tribe hasn't done right by you & now it looks like you'll direct your frustration at anyone who'll stand still for it.

i felt ethically obligated to speak up about what i saw here, and now that i've done it i don't feel obligated to defend myself or my right to my opinion.

Isn't that the kettle calling the pot black. What about toystorys right to express himself? Im not a cyber bully. I'm a realist. If they can look here they could be looking at porn instead. You have no obligation to defend yourself to me. We'll have to agree to disagree.

 

[augidog]

i wasn't gonna bother coming back in, but let me clarify for you...by asking you to show me where i resorted to direct insults to express my opinion about a particular comment. in fact, i carefully worded my comments to be sure the discussion could carry on..."go back to your hole" didn't quite contribute or compliment my effort, but it did fortify my message in a backhanded way.

desensitization is a real-world peril to today's youth, and relevant to this discussion about violence...and being desensitized about porn in your youth can lead to huge problems as an adult, including some pretty raunchy violence. like i said, follow the news & do the math. the porn "joke" (by an adult, in a discussion that includes children & their issues) proved a point about how casual we've become in our striving for freedom of expression, and therefore IMO it deserved being pointed out as the perfect example of how we can lose sight of our ethical obligations to our young.

sure, we enjoy the freedom to express ourselves, but that doesn't obligate us to push the envelope...IMO our freedom obligates us to put a little thought into what we say and how it affects the greater good.

 

[Doc Sprocket]

It's truly amazing how one off-topic topic can go so off-topic.

Augidog- It was a casual crack, intended to garner a laugh. Inappropriate? Perhaps, but we've seen worse. That said, I have edited my post because at least a fraction of me agrees that it need not be here.

FatCat's got a point: reading a simple, non-swear, four-letter-word is the absolute least of the evils a young-un can and will come across whilst surfing. He//, I've had innocent Google searches go horribly sideways due to a search-word.

Personally, I think my comment was entirely harmless, BUT- I realize I'm in a position that dictates upholding a certain standard. That standard may be a little grey in areas, but I try to do my best without being a total robot about things. Next?

 

[augidog]

well, i did try to tie my thoughts all together and express how it can all be considered a complete on-topic off-topic issue of adult responsibility to our children. i think we've too long tolerated the things that have lead to so much detachment in today's youth. "everyone's doing it" is getting old.

and it's not the word, but the casual sharing of it between adults and children that got me. hey, i know it's just a joke, but i'm all grown up and i "get it" but it pains me to think that impressionable children also "get it."

anyways...

Personally, I think my comment was entirely harmless, BUT- I realize I'm in a position that dictates upholding a certain standard.

adult to adult, i think that's a very adult outlook, and i appreciate your attention to the matter. if we're to keep the very valid issue of bullying (and how to handle it) valid, i think we need to stay on-point and not make matters worse in our passion to express ourselves without forethought.

 

[Doc Sprocket]

Having finished the plumbing I was working on, and had a few more minutes to consider a thing or two:

I must confess that I, too, think that my joke was offside. Now and then, I think we all forget who may be on the other end of the keyboard. While there are certainly greater dangers awaiting our younger members out there in cyberland, I understand that I am under a moral obligation to ensure that the content of this site is as family-friendly as is practicable. While I cannot guarantee that I will catch everything, I can certainly monitor my own output.

This isn't a matter of opinion, it's a matter of standards. Wouldn't be the first time that my personal opinion has had to take a back seat to my official position.

Having said all that, I offer my sincere apologies to anyone who may have been offended, and would like this to serve as an example of how we should all be mindful of our younger membership.

 

[augidog]

*Any compromise between "right" and "wrong" is a victory for "wrong".

you got that right, my friend...freedom is tricky business

and we somehow need to project that message to today's youth. this bullying thing is out of control, and imo it's due to years of too much tolerance of extremism. the knee-jerk reaction of "zero-tolerance" and "victimization" is too little too late.

today's kids need to give the bully a taste of his or her own medicine, truly...but always remembering to stay on-point and not just become more bullies. if the bully backs off, then the group should back off also.

i'd like to see the next generation be given a better handle on how to deal with the issue, and the first thing i'd say is you need to follow toystory's example of (when appropriate) placing the greater good ahead of personal desire or opinion. what he did was IMO how a truly free adult comports himself, and i wish there were more like him in the world in which i walk my path.

 

[Doc Sprocket]

you got that right, my friend

Touche! You got me on that one. Remind me to change that...

Baaack to where we was at...

We've seen some vastly different opinions on how to handle bullying. Suck it up and wait for the cavalry, or fight fire with fire. I'm a fire kinda guy- it took me too long to figure it out on my own, and I didn't want my boys suffering a moment longer than necessary. But I have to remind everyone, that it's not just pushing and yelling. An example-

A couple years ago, my older son brought a project to school after a weekend of polishing it. Standing outside waiting for the bell to ring, a little bully casually walked up and put his foot through it, unprovoked. School did nothing. So- what to do? What (as either a student or parent) would you do?

 

[FatCat]

i wasn't gonna bother coming back in, but let me clarify for you...by asking you to show me where i resorted to direct insults to express my opinion about a particular comment. in fact, i carefully worded my comments to be sure the discussion could carry on..."go back to your hole" didn't quite contribute or compliment my effort, but it did fortify my message in a backhanded way.

What are you attempting to clarify? You threw some insults at me.


augidog
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and let us not forget the cyber-bully, a wholly new phenomenon of the modern world.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FatCat
Oh go back to your hole.
thank you for proving my point with an insult disguised as discussion...apparently, your freedom to express yourself supercedes mine. your inability to express yourself intelligently and with sensitivity speaks to my main message of tribal responsibility, clearly the tribe hasn't done right by you & now it looks like you'll direct your frustration at anyone who'll stand still for it.

i felt ethically obligated to speak up about what i saw here, and now that i've done it i don't feel obligated to defend myself or my right to my opinion. END QUOTE

you accused me of being a cyber bully. Of having an inability to express myself intelligently. This looks more like the language of a cyber bully to me. Totally based on ASSumption. that was a statement/idea, not an insult. You should consider it.

 

[augidog]

but, fatcat...all i asked you to do was point out where i personally insulted toystory while expressing my opinion. how you feel about what i wrote in response to "go back to your hole" isn't something i'll bother myself worrying about.

how's this for on-topic?

you got as good as you gave, which is how i handle bullies.

 

[Doc Sprocket]

i personally insulted toystory while expressing my opinion.

I must have missed something in the fray. Maybe while I had my head under the kitchen sink? I didn't get insulted... To my knowledge...

And, crossing paths with the topic at hand- it takes a great deal to insult me. Getting bullied maybe thickened my skin a wee bit. I know exactly how smart or good I am (or am not) and am perfectly willing to admit my shortcomings. So, if I got insulted, well- didn't work. LOL

 

[augidog]

true, i did express my opinion about something you said, but i did NOT direct any insults at you as that would be counterproductive to my goal of being heard. because i left the door open for discussion, two adults were able to come to accord, that's mighty fine social interaction in my book.

you're caught up in a little sidetrack where i've tried to demonstrate that usually once purposely insulted i don't care about anything else the person may have to say.

i believe in bullying the bully whenever and wherever i can. sometimes a lesson is learned, sometimes not, but hey i did my best to be a part of the solution instead of being the problem.

 

[FatCat]

but, fatcat...all i asked you to do was point out where i personally insulted toystory while expressing my opinion. how you feel about what i wrote in response to "go back to your hole" isn't something i'll bother myself worrying about.

how's this for on-topic?

you got as good as you gave, which is how i handle bullies.

Where did I accuse you of insulting anyone? I didnt. You gave an opinion. One I didn't care to hear so I told you mine. Then you started with the insults. Read the text. Youve actually only undermined yourself. Now the big evil PORN word is all over this thread. You were heard alright. What's your point?

 

[FatCat]

true, i did express my opinion about something you said, but i did NOT direct any insults at you as that would be counterproductive to my goal of being heard. because i left the door open for discussion, two adults were able to come to accord, that's mighty fine social interaction in my book.

you're caught up in a little sidetrack where i've tried to demonstrate that usually once purposely insulted i don't care about anything else the person may have to say.

i believe in bullying the bully whenever and wherever i can. sometimes a lesson is learned, sometimes not, but hey i did my best to be a part of the solution instead of being the problem.

You should bully yourself. Your the one spewing insults. I personally think you're a fool to shelter your children. When they're 20 years old smoking crack in the back of a van you'll feel different. So we should shelter then so when they turn 18 they go off to college and drugs, booze, and the opposite hit them like a ton of bricks. Education is the key to prevention. Not trying to shelter.

 

[Doc Sprocket]

Wow... Ain't this interesting!

Feel free to argue your respective points, just try to keep it pertinent and controlled. Anyone waana take a stab at this-

A couple years ago, my older son brought a project to school after a weekend of polishing it. Standing outside waiting for the bell to ring, a little bully casually walked up and put his foot through it, unprovoked. School did nothing. So- what to do? What (as either a student or parent) would you do?

?

 

[OzFab]

WOW! There seems to be a few opinions flying around here, not to mention egos. The thing about opinions is everyone has one &, unfortunately, they're entitled to have one &, sometimes, it may be different to yours...

As to the "who's at fault" question, IMO, it's not the kid being bullied, nor the bully but, in most cases, there's an underlying factor thay nobody knows of nor understands: Case in point:
My stepson was bullied in primary school. After investigating, we learned that the "bully's" father had died. Now, the kid had nothing to do with his father; barely spoke to him & didn't see him for years but, it, obviously, affected him & he started acting up. Six months later, it was all over; he even came to my stepsons birthday...

In most cases, the bully is either just trying to assert himself because he feels insecure or he's looking for attention. Of course, there's always the heroes who have to look tough in front of their mates but, again, they're usually morons...

There's an old hypothetical about "how should you react when someone pulls a gun on you?" Most peoples natural reaction is to freak out, wet themselves & beg & plead for their life. The gunman now has the power. If you go the opposite way &, inistead of begging for your life, beg the gunman to shoot you, unless you're dealing with a complete psychopath, there's a very high chance the gunman will run away thinking "what just happened?" because you took away the power by not showing fear.

 

[FatCat]

Wow... Ain't this interesting!

Feel free to argue your respective points, just try to keep it pertinent and controlled. Anyone waana take a stab at this-?

As the student. That's an *** kickable offense. That sucks. That's revenge by any means necessary. As a parentvif school fid nothing id try to talk to this pukes parents.

 

[Doc Sprocket]

That's where the difficulty lies. My son knew that if he reacted violently, the school would've punished him because the instigating act was not violent. The school did nothing about the instigator. As a parent, you have to be careful about how you intervene, or the kid gets bullied more because "he needs his daddy to help him"... Conundrum.

 

[augidog]

and that's why this has to become a tribal issue. seems to me that only peers on the scene could have made a difference in the outcome, through instant intervention or a diligent demand for administrative justice. maybe the poor bully does have issues, but how can we justify our failure to act on the target's behalf? said target, if left standing alone, will now have his or her own issues to deal with...and on and on and on...

we're all in this together, like it or don't, and nothing changes until we all get on the same page and work towards a common goal of a greater good.

if we can empower one generation to shun the labels and develop a broader sense of responsibility, it's my opinion that we'll eventually wind up with a generation of citizens (and voters) who finally "get it."

ego, agenda, opinion...guilty as charged. to deny it would be absurd.

lemme ask a more generalized social question:

what about good old-fashioned "jock on nerd" bullying, where the only problem the poor bully has is that he's too popular for his own good? why does a person of power choose, more often than not, to dominate, instead of becoming notorious for his or her good works? doesn't the ego get fed either way? how does passive peer-feedback influence the choice, and can proactive peer-feedback force a change?