Newbie: Engine options--who's running what.

[ramitupurs84]

Hey,

So I am looking to build a buggy/ go cart. I am making one of the large style. I feel like I have a couple of options. I am kind of looking for mentor like help hehehehe.

The rig is going to a be tubular, roughly 6 feet long, 5 feet high and run atv style tires.

I know of three choices:

1. Briggs & Straton/ Tecumseh style engine I had on my mini bike as a kid.
2. Motorcycle engine
3. Snowmobile engine

I am not interested in 1.

I have access to a two stroke, 70's era oil injected Kawasaki 250cc set-up. I am not a huge fan of the oil injection especially if it's not hooked up. In general the manual shifting linkage design seems like it might be complicated. It seems like it maybe cheaper and easier to find. Does anyone run the oil injector motorcycle engines? Or how are people doing manual trans hook ups for shifting?

I live in MI and never even sat on a snowmobile. . Therefor, I don't know whats the heck I am looking at. I know I have two choices:

1. Liquid Cooled
2. Fan/ Forced air/ air cooled

What are people running, it seems the cheaper version is the 2. Should I stick to name brands if I need go this route, i.e. older sleds sometimes equal top end repairs for parts?

All in all what are people running-what works-what should I stay away from?

Thanks a bunc!

 

[DustinWolfe]

personally if it was me i would go with the m/c engine(i dont think anyone is a fan of the oil injection if it isn't hooked up). sled engines are more powerful but they are very loud and typically need to spin to 5000 rpms before the clutch engages(adjustable). the thing i like about motorcycle engines is you have more control of when the clutch is engaged and you typically have 5 speeds to make up for having less power than the sleds.

 

[ramitupurs84]

Good points. The one I have access to is out of a 1972 Kawasaki f11 250cc. Thoughts. I just hate the idea of pre-mix on a trip in the woods but I think I could get it for near nothing. Thoughts?

 

[DustinWolfe]

a good percentage of people just run premix in them anyway. keeps your fuel mix more consistent. why is it the woods that makes you not want premix? for fear you might run out of gas or something?

 

[fowler]

if u look after the injector system it will work far better that pre mix

also why are u making this thing so high?

or is that just a guess

find the hp output of the 250cc kawa
is the kawa a motorcycle engine?
if so the gears are very simple to set up

if u wnat somrthing to drive around a little on road a little offroad the 250 is a sweet little engine
if u want a really big fast buggy (60mph in the woods)
then try find somthing bigger like a 600cc liquid cooled bike engine
and check this mob out
www.edge.au.com
there is a forum u may want to browse for ideas

 

[ramitupurs84]

So it is a dirt bike, it's a old dual-sport engine. Here is the only useful information I could find on it.

http://www.cyclechaos.com/wiki/Kawasaki_F11

I want to make a mini like sand rail. I wanted to use the badland buggy plans, i.e the sabertooth.

http://badlandbuggy.com/plans.html

I guess what I want to do with it is drive it on trails for a day and not have to push it back because no one had mixed juice. Maybe it's unfounded, more than likely I bet. I also don't want to be anemic either. I also weight 300 pounds and are 6'7'' lol.

Now stupid question, no way to make this engine a electric start right?

Thoughts? Come right out and tell me I am being stupid if it is, no hard feelings learning experiences here.

 

[DustinWolfe]

if u look after the injector system it will work far better that pre mix

this is definetly not the case oil injection tends to vary the mixture at different rpms. not sure how that signifies working better than a fixed, known fuel mix. the only way this is the case is if the oil injection lubes the main bearings

 

[Doc Sprocket]

Research that injected engine heavily first. SOME oil injected engines have an oil line going right to the main bearing, which is isolated from the fuel mix. Disabling the oil injector will cause the bearing to fail quickly. Such is the case with my '73 Suzuki.

With regards to the shift linkage. I gotta be honest- If you're building a buggy, you have much tougher hurdles to face than the shift linkage.

 

[fowler]

I'd build edge

Badlands are badly designed

They are designed by someone whos read a book on buggys
They look good on paper but don't work as well
Badlands don't build any of there own

Edge design and build there buggies from experience
They are a small company based in the most isolated capital city in the world do u will see more badlands as they are better known

Sorry for the rant
But trying to help

 

[ramitupurs84]

@ Fowler

Rant? I'd rather have you tell me then feel like a rant. Exactly the kind of stuff I want to hear.

Aren't all of their plans in metric? I can barely add let alone convert HAHAH.

I am going to post on Thumpertalk about the engine I will report back.

 

[fowler]

Lol forgot America hasnt caught up yet

U could just work in metric
It's just all divisions of 10

 

[r97]

U could just work in metric

That was my plan when I purchased the sidewinder plans, but I soon found out that I had no way of getting metric sized steel stock. That right there pretty much meant I had to change the whole thing over in a CAD model before I could build it. Of course that is possible if you want to do it that way.

 

[fowler]

The plans have metric to imperial steel size in the front page of the book

I work in special mimperial
For fabrication it is all metric mm an metres
But if im lining something big up like putting an engine in
I'll say in imperial
Who knows why

 

[sideways]

I reckon oil injection is great, it get the oil to the places it actually needs to go(less power loss to friction and less wear) whilst using less of it.

Most are set up to give more oil when the engine is under load, this is obviously advantageous. DustinWolfe, I fail to see how you think injecting more oil under load is a bad thing?

Most oil injection systems are very simple and reliable, the one on my LJ50(not a motorbike) engine actually injects more oil as the pump wears out and gums up. The Suzuki CCI systems I've come across are all designed like that. When you're belching smoke, it's time to do the pump.

The oil injection system would be easy to fit to a kart, just hook up some kind of oil reservoir and run another throttle cable to it.

Many bikes that run oil injection are designed just for that, running them on pre-mix can result in premature crank bearing failure.

Shift linkage is easy as, just a rod. If you wana be fancy you can use a push-pull cable.

Run the old Kawa engine.

 

[landuse]

I find imperial too confusing. Working in multiples of 10 just seems more logical to me.

 

[sideways]

I find imperial too confusing. Working in multiples of 10 just seems more logical to me.

x2

Metric is a million times easier and quicker.

If you live in imperial world, just get a metric tape measure and ruler. Edge will have used steel sizes that have a close imperial equivalent.

 

[karl]

Metric is a million times easier and quicker.

Yep I agree, its like wtf were they thinking, its all a bunch of random numbers. We still haft to learn the metric system in school tho.

 

[fowler]

U are literally using old English royalty to measure

An inch is the length of king George's ( not sure which one) nose

 

[robbie]

U are literally using old English royalty to measure

An inch is the length of king George's ( not sure which one) nose

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inch

 

[DustinWolfe]

Most are set up to give more oil when the engine is under load, this is obviously advantageous. DustinWolfe, I fail to see how you think injecting more oil under load is a bad thing?

no its a great thing if you like to foul plugs and run uneven mixes. these is no sense in running a varying mixture. its either enough or its not. what you fail to see is how running too rich of a mixture affects your power output.

test the fuel mixture your oil injector is giving you i think you'll find its just below plug fouling level