Port and Polish Job on a Clone Engine
- Thread starter AMMFAB
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AMMFAB
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exenos
Project Nut
Another vote for a sticky. Nice work Mike.
yes sir.
very nice work.
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machinist@large
Active member
I vote "Permanent Sticky"!!!!!!!!!
souperman000
New member
what special tools do you use?
Everything in the pics looks really good
Everything in the pics looks really good
AMMFAB
New member
nothing special, basic porting supplies is all it is. carbides for material removal and catridge rolls for clean up. i use to use flap wheels and cross buffs but now ive got it dial in without the use of those tools. now theres different shape carbides that i use depending on what kind of room i have in the ports. as for the catridge rolls.... well same goes, there are different sizes and shapes depending on what kind of room i have. all my finishes are with 60 grit by the way, i would go no finer then 80 though for those of u that may try doing ur own. now i have to draw the line somehwere and thats telling how i get my very uniform finish on the ports, sorry guys that took me years of porting before i figured that one out but ill say this..... just like welding practice makes perfect.
theres also the question of what to port.... theres the basic (or standard) key ares to hit like the short side turn and the raising of the roofs but in more modern 4 valve head designs its way more complicated then the basics. now like i said on the first page, just cleaning up the casting will net u smallers gains throughout, correct porting in the right areas will give u more gains all around or in certain pwer bands depending on what ur using the vehicle for and then u could always go buck wild and hog them out which will net u losses down low to due losing velocity and larger gains in the upper rpm range when ur engines needs volulme not velocity. ive got alot of money into flow benching and trial and error to know what works and what doesnt on alot of different heads. but when it comes to a new head, ill look it over, and figure out the game plan based off of what ive seen in similar heads and go to it. theres not much to these but the basics to be honest, im mean the most extreme u could go would be to do some welding on the head in certain places and then port it, and i may do that here soon. hope that helps.
mike
theres also the question of what to port.... theres the basic (or standard) key ares to hit like the short side turn and the raising of the roofs but in more modern 4 valve head designs its way more complicated then the basics. now like i said on the first page, just cleaning up the casting will net u smallers gains throughout, correct porting in the right areas will give u more gains all around or in certain pwer bands depending on what ur using the vehicle for and then u could always go buck wild and hog them out which will net u losses down low to due losing velocity and larger gains in the upper rpm range when ur engines needs volulme not velocity. ive got alot of money into flow benching and trial and error to know what works and what doesnt on alot of different heads. but when it comes to a new head, ill look it over, and figure out the game plan based off of what ive seen in similar heads and go to it. theres not much to these but the basics to be honest, im mean the most extreme u could go would be to do some welding on the head in certain places and then port it, and i may do that here soon. hope that helps.
mike
AMMFAB
New member
heres some more of the dart head pictured above...
mike
mike
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AMMFAB
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and heres some from a more modern 4 valve h22a honda head....
intake....
intake....
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FatCat
2 stroke Addict!
Heres a link to some porting tools. Be warned, the price is high but nice tools aren't cheap.
http://ccspecialtytool.com/
Dang, I was going to ask you how you got the finish perfect. That's your 25yrs. of playing showing. What do you think of the tools above? Ever heard of them? This kit is on my wish list. Just a big chunk of change if I find out I just don't have it. There's definately a nac to it. It's not for everyone. I've always had others do the porting on my stuff but I think I'm about ready to buy some trash jugs and start learning. I've also got a dremel tool with the with the extension. This seems like it would work but it's awful bulky for a small 2 stroke. I think it may be smarter to start with a proper tool. Also is there any way other than trial and error to find out what works. I mean the effects of the porting that I would do without assembling and running the engine. Is that a flow bench?
Trial and error is quite expensive. Must be an easier way.
http://ccspecialtytool.com/
Dang, I was going to ask you how you got the finish perfect. That's your 25yrs. of playing showing. What do you think of the tools above? Ever heard of them? This kit is on my wish list. Just a big chunk of change if I find out I just don't have it. There's definately a nac to it. It's not for everyone. I've always had others do the porting on my stuff but I think I'm about ready to buy some trash jugs and start learning. I've also got a dremel tool with the with the extension. This seems like it would work but it's awful bulky for a small 2 stroke. I think it may be smarter to start with a proper tool. Also is there any way other than trial and error to find out what works. I mean the effects of the porting that I would do without assembling and running the engine. Is that a flow bench?
Trial and error is quite expensive. Must be an easier way.
AMMFAB
New member
thats a pretty sick little porting kit at the top..... never see a setup that small. but thats gotta be specially made for doing just that sort of thing, hence the price tag on it.
yes flow benching is what ive used...... but flow benching doesn't tell u all, it just tells u ur going in the right or wrong direction. the real answers are on the dyno or at the track. porting 2 strokes has the same effects as porting rotaries pretty much. by changing the shape of the ports in any direction and u change..... timing, compression, power band and stuff that i don't know about cause i dont mess with either of the 2 because they are a pita to work on. if i were u i would do the basics..... slightly open the inlet of the intake ports and maybe the outlets of the exhaust ports...... other then that just use some cartridge rolls to smooth out the casting lines and flash in the ports but try not to make the ports wider or taller in any way at the cylinder end of the ports cause thats where u starting messing with engine dynamics.
mike
yes flow benching is what ive used...... but flow benching doesn't tell u all, it just tells u ur going in the right or wrong direction. the real answers are on the dyno or at the track. porting 2 strokes has the same effects as porting rotaries pretty much. by changing the shape of the ports in any direction and u change..... timing, compression, power band and stuff that i don't know about cause i dont mess with either of the 2 because they are a pita to work on. if i were u i would do the basics..... slightly open the inlet of the intake ports and maybe the outlets of the exhaust ports...... other then that just use some cartridge rolls to smooth out the casting lines and flash in the ports but try not to make the ports wider or taller in any way at the cylinder end of the ports cause thats where u starting messing with engine dynamics.
mike
FatCat
2 stroke Addict!
More good advice. There was a thread on porting on the other forum I'm on. Here's a link. Dont mind the strange humor, this is a weird thread. For any of you guys who don't realize it's a joke don't go drilling holes in your pipe. I asked about changing exhaust height and adnoh layed the smackdown on me. He is a wealth of knowledge on 2 strokes.(and I'm sure more)
http://www.pilotodyssey.com/PO/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10691
http://www.pilotodyssey.com/PO/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10691
B.M.800
TheBeal.
Can a dremmel be used to do this? just to clean up the casting?
machinist@large
Active member
AMMFAB
New member
yes but u will need to find a cartridge roll anvil thats 1/8" because i believe thats what most chucks on them are. all my tooling consists of pneumatic die grinders with 1/4" chucks.
mike
mike
B.M.800
TheBeal.
Would you happen to know if dremmel has a bit that would work?
I wouldnt mind experimenting on a clone I got...
I wouldnt mind experimenting on a clone I got...
FatCat
2 stroke Addict!
The guy who ported my last cylinder uses a dremel tool with the extension thing.(can't think of what it's called) but yes, you can use your dremel.
AMMFAB
New member
im a detroit diesel engine tech so i get all my tooling through my tool guys. cornwell, matco, mac or snap on. heres a set that would be good for a dremel... just remember use plenty of wd40 or some other lube. i dip mine after every minute or so of extensive cutting. if its just trimming or light pressure being used on the tool then sometimes u dont even need to use lube until it starts to get clogged up with aluminum. as for an 1/8" shank to use for cartridge rolls well i dont know ive never seen any. remeber this is me basing all this off of if dremels use an 1/8" chuck. they may have 1/4" heads for them for all i know. worst case though get a 1/4" anvil and take it to a machine shop and pay them like 25.00 to have them take it down to 1/8" on the end that goes into ur dremel.
http://www.matcotools.com/catalog/product/ZK8MB/8-PIECE-1-8-MINIATURE-BURR-SET/
mike
B.M.800
TheBeal.
Thanks. I will have to give it a try...
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