What 420cc Predator Performance Upgrades are needed for extended high rev (4200+ RPM) use?

leiget

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Here is the forum post of my buggy.
I'm making a buggy. And I want it to go 45 MPH. But I need the engine to go 4200 RPM reliably and safely. I'm willing to overbuild it in order for it to last longer.

What would I need for a 420cc Predator to be reliable and safe under continuous load with 4200+ RPM?

What I know so far for sure that I want with some info for anyone doing research:
- Billet flywheel (#1 for sure) - stock cast flywheels can fail, billet is mandatory above ~3800 RPM.
- Billet Rod - stock rod is a weak link; billet rod with proper bearing inserts keeps the bottom end alive.
- Chromoly Push Rods - stock ones flex at higher RPM.
- Heaver springs - 26 lb or similar to handle sustained RPM without float.

What I might need or want:
- Performance piston/rings - forged if budget allows for possible extended life.
- Billet side cover - stiffens block, helps keep crank/rod in alignment.
- Chromoly head studs - prevent head gasket leaks and pulling threads.
- Balanced rotating assembly – machine shop balanced crank, piston, rod, and flywheel.
- Heavy-duty lifters – to match stronger springs.
- Camshaft – stock cam is mild; a torque or mid-range cam helps at 4200 without valve float.
- Billet retainers/keepers – stock stamped ones can fail with stronger springs.
- Gasket set – copper or performance head gasket for reliability.

What I already have:
- High-flow carb & intake – 34–36mm carb or jetted stock carb, plus good filter.
- Velocity stack - Speeds and straightens airflow into the carb, improves cylinder filling at higher RPM, and reduces turbulence vs. a filter jammed straight on the carb.
- Exhaust header – tuned length header to let it breathe.

This is a lot but I'm looking to make the engine last a long time at higher RPMs, as the rest of my buggy is over-built for the most part because that's how I like it.
Please let me know if there is anything I'm missing or that's incorrect.
 
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Hellion

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What’s going to be your maximum redline RPM?

EDIT: is your buggy on the forum?
 
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leiget

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What’s going to be your maximum redline RPM?

EDIT: is your buggy on the forum?
My main goal is 4200 RPM, but I want to look up and see what the drop off is in torque and HP and see if I can't make it higher. The main concern isn't the engine in this regard, it's the body and things like the tires, suspension, etc. I designed the buggy with the idea of 45 MPH limit, so while it may be able to handle more, I need to make sure it can safely and reliably handle 45 MPH first.

Yes it is, I should have included a link. I'm going to make a big update to it because I've been working on it a lot.
Here is the forum post of my buggy.
 

panchothedog

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Billet rod and flywheel. Governor delete ( completely removed ) 50 lb valve springs, rejeted stock carburetor ( .022" on the pilot jet & .042" on the main )
header pipe with rvl style muffler and free flowing air filter, and that sucker will run hard at 5200 rpm all day. Add a mild cam and add another 500 rpm.
This is a very mild build. You don't need different lifters, push rods, gaskets or head studs. If it is a non hemi, then a set of champion rocker arms would be a good idea. All the rest of the stuff that you have listed is way overkill and a waste of money unless you are shooting for the moon horsepower wise.
 

leiget

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Okay, so realistically it's mostly okay up to about 5000 rpm? Because I don't mind spending some extra for added toughness but if I don't need to buy everything in the list that's obviously good.

So it looks like I might want to go with these, if anything:
- Billet Flywheel
- Billet Rod
- 50lb springs (or around that)
- Chromoly push rods (would still like them considering they're not that expensive)
- Better rocker arms
 

Sparkwizard

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I have been running a 420 on a mud mower for about 8 years. Internals are stock. Flywheel is stock. Governor is still connected, but tweaked. Carb is a stock appearing Tillotson blueprinted, with idle mixture adjustment. It revs at 4500 all day long. Stock muffler, stock air box. I advanced the timing, but I don't remember how much.

Can't even remember the last time the oil was changed. Totally reliable.
 

leiget

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I have been running a 420 on a mud mower for about 8 years. Internals are stock. Flywheel is stock. Governor is still connected, but tweaked. Carb is a stock appearing Tillotson blueprinted, with idle mixture adjustment. It revs at 4500 all day long. Stock muffler, stock air box. I advanced the timing, but I don't remember how much.

Can't even remember the last time the oil was changed. Totally reliable.
Okay sounds good. Thanks for your input.
 

Hellion

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I think it is Brown Stain Racing (one of our guys), could be wrong can't remember who exactly, that swears by the stock air box for off-road riding and for mid-to-high-grade engine mods. It is not that restrictive but it is protected by the rigid outer housing (for the large debris and splashed water and mud) and the inner filter with the "accordion" paper element, metal mesh and outer foam pre-filter is about as good as it gets. The 420cc may in fact have just a solid foam filter (I know the Hemi and non-Hemi 212cc have either/or) but that too is protected by the housing. The half-a-loaf-of-bread sized "cone filter" sold in the Stage 1 kits are scary. Too porous for off-road I think.

So: stock air box, tune the carburetor, add a better exhaust perhaps or emulate Sparkwizard's setup and run it. Read Doc Sprocket's "Governors, Flywheels and an Internet Full of Crap" article too. It's in the FAQ section.

No one ever mentions adjusting the governor, only a select few. 👏
 
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Sparkwizard

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I have not interacted with Brownstainracing on this site, but if he is the same man by the same name on oldminibikes, he is a fan of stock carbs, air boxes and tweaked but functional governors. He and I often agree on making power safely, while retaining safety equipment.
 

Edwin Spangler

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Well for reference, I run my karts engine (420 with stock internals) at 5k for up to 2 minutes at a time, repeatedly for hours. Its the Hemi, if that matters.

I also have a steel plate blocking the side of the engine should the flywheel come apart.
 

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