Snowmobile or motorcycle engine

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Lloyd_AL

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Hi,
A few buddies and I have been getting ready to build a bigger kart (might be better described as a small sand rail, not quite sure), and we're torn between getting an old 550 arctic cat snowmobile and stripping it or using a XS400 motorcycle engine.

The snowmobile would be considerably more powerful I believe but we're a bit more comfortable with motorcycle engines.

What have been your experiences? Is one considerably easier than the other? Are overheating concerns important for the snowmobile?

Thanks!
 
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Lloyd_AL

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I hadn't really looked at the ATV route, there were just a few cheap snowmobiles nearby that got me interested.

Is there any particular reason you prefer motorcycle engines?

Thanks
 
drummingpariah

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ultralight01 said:
Motorcycle engines have more displacement and super high rpms...
Click to expand...

If the comparison is between an xs400 (parallel twin 400cc Yamaha) and Arctic Cat 550. both redline around 8500rpm, and the motorcycle has less displacement. Your statement is a lot like saying, "bees have more stripes than other animals" - It all depends upon the specifics that you're comparing against.

Unless I'm wrong, snowmobiles are typically single speed (I don't have any real experience) so you don't have a gearbox/clutch/shifter to worry about. There's certainly a gearing sacrifice there, but it's essentially a super-kart engine.

On the other hand, motorcycle engines are mostly the same but with a gearbox. Typically, you'll get 5 or 6 forward gears, but you'll have to sort out shifting issues that most karts aren't built with.

An ATV engine is almost always the same as a motorcycle engine, but with a reverse gear.

As an example, the lt-z400 (an atv) is the same engine as the dr-z400 (dirtbike). The difference is in the gearboxes, and I'd argue that the atv's reverse is slightly more desirable for a kart, since you can't easily put your feet down and push backwards while riding like you can on a dirtbike.
 
Kartorbust

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Usually sleds (snowmobiles) have a torque converter and a large one at that. Some of the newer models or all new models have reverse...I think the engine reverses it's rotation or they have some black magic/witchcraft in it for reverse. Think at least Polaris started that in the mid-2000s.

Older sleds I know were 2 stroke and air cooled. Our '86 Polaris Indy Trail 440 was a 400cc 2 stroke with what is called a variable oil injection, where it has a separate tank just for oil, rather than mixing it with gas. Much better for idling and WOT where instead of the oil/gas being a static and eyeballed 50:1, it would adjust the amount of oil needed at idle and all the way open. Of course, it would only run on Polaris brand oil. But I think most sleds nowadays are 4 strokes.

My vote is for the sled engine. Has a TC on it and won't have to shift constantly and you can concentrate more on riding. Plus rigging a clutch and gear selector will be a huge pain.
 
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Jw7054

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I'd go motorcycle. Your probably not gonna be able to ride it with the sled engine very long because it has no cooling system and a lot of sleds used snow thrown from The track to help cool the engine

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OzFab

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+1 for ATV; you have everything you could possibly want...

ultralight01 said:
Motorcycle engines have more displacement and super high rpms...
Click to expand...

That's kind of a blanket statement; wouldn't that depend on what engine is chosen? Some motorcycle engines have less displacement (125cc is less than 500cc) & a 2 stroke engine will rev much higher than a 4 stroke but, a 4 stroke will have more low end torque...
 
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Denny

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Jw7054 said:
I'd go motorcycle. Your probably not gonna be able to ride it with the sled engine very long because it has no cooling system and a lot of sleds used snow thrown from The track to help cool the engine

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Click to expand...

Motorcycles don't have a cooling system either. :thumbsup: I don't see any fan on those engines.

Denny
 
Kartorbust

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You'd have to look for a water-cooled engine for either a bike or sled. Majority of the new sleds are water cooled and running an old school air cooled would be no different than running the old VW air-cooled engines. Which by the way have been used in Baja races for years and no real issues. Baja bugs are usually air cooled and those engines were enclosed in the back of the cars. Using a sled engine would more than likely be out in the open, so cooling should not be an issue.
 
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Jw7054

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Denny said:
Motorcycles don't have a cooling system either. :thumbsup: I don't see any fan on those engines.

Denny
Click to expand...
Yah but a lot of sleds are designed to be cooled with the snow thrown from the track. With out, you are going to overheat pretty fast. I know some will only run for around ten minutes then you have to let them cool down because there is no snow to cool them off. Motorcycles are designed to run with out a cooling system(other than air)and some sleds are too but a lot aren't.

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OzFab

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As previously stated, snowmobiles are, typically, used in the snow (hence the name), which is usually very cold (am I wrong here?); from what I've seen, the engine is usually covered at the top but, open at the bottom, allowing enough cold air in to cool the engine...

It would be interesting to see how long a snowmobile would last in the desert before melting the piston the the cylinder...
 
Jrgunn5150

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I bought a Raptor 660 for 800 bucks a few months ago.

Why? Reverse, which is huge in a buggy. A real electrical system, which will be nice for keeping the battery charged, running a winch, and a stereo. Aftermarket support, they make everything in the world for Raptors, I already bought an auto clutch for it so I can just gas and go like a sled or little kart.

Motorcycles, while cheap, usually don't have reverse and it's not cheap or simple to add.

Snowmobiles, while even cheaper, again usually don't have reverse, and when it comes to gearing them for Buggy use, I'm not sure if you would be able to get the clutch to engage properly at low trail rpms. If you're just zooming across dunes, no big deal, but if you want to drive in the woods, going slow is necessary at times.
 
Flyinhillbilly

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I have built some XS choppers, they suck. They're slow, and They shake like a dog pooping log chains. Snowmobile all the way.
 

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Denny

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Jw7054 said:
Yah but a lot of sleds are designed to be cooled with the snow thrown from the track. With out, you are going to overheat pretty fast. I know some will only run for around ten minutes then you have to let them cool down because there is no snow to cool them off. Motorcycles are designed to run with out a cooling system(other than air)and some sleds are too but a lot aren't.

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Click to expand...

They have these new inventions called RADIATORS and they do this strange thing they transfer heat from water to the air, hence no need for snow at all. :thumbsup: You could use one of those new fangled radiator thingys to cool a sled engine.

Denny

---------- Post added at 01:09 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:07 AM ----------
Fabroman said:
As previously stated, snowmobiles are, typically, used in the snow (hence the name), which is usually very cold (am I wrong here?); from what I've seen, the engine is usually covered at the top but, open at the bottom, allowing enough cold air in to cool the engine...

It would be interesting to see how long a snowmobile would last in the desert before melting the piston the the cylinder...
Click to expand...

Forever with the proper sized radiator. :thumbsup:

Denny
 
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Jw7054

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Denny said:
They have these new inventions called RADIATORS and they do this strange thing they transfer heat from water to the air, hence no need for snow at all. :thumbsup: You could use one of those new fangled radiator thingys to cool a sled engine.

Denny
Click to expand...
You could but then you have to worry about how you are going to power it, how well it will even work considering that the engine was not built to use a radiator originally. So you would completely have to adapt the engine to use the radiator. And then it probably wouldn't be worth the cost and time to make a radiator work on that engine. Unless you got an engine that already has a radiator or is setup to be able to install a radiator, I don't think it would be worth it. However before u go yelling and b!thing saying it isn't, I haven't spent 30 hours on the internet researching how to put a radiator on a air/snow cooled sled engine.
 
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