Smurph
Code Poet
http://www.wired.com/autopia/2009/10/aptera-doe/
It's pretty cool. They are now eligible for funding and will be producing these.
It's pretty cool. They are now eligible for funding and will be producing these.
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Aptera reverse three-wheel electric vehicle considered a "car".
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Phoenix-Karts
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So now they say it is a car???
So By Car - They mean an Automobile?
...
The Aptera 3-Wheel vehicle has always been classified as a "Motorcycle" - Why? Because a motorcycle does not have to comply with NTSB On-Road Passenger Car Safety Equipment Requirements...
ie:
1) They don't require the Front and Rear 5MPH Bumper assemblies (adds about 350 lbs to the vehicle weight).
2) They don't have to comply with the rear bumper Impact test certification (backing into a pole at 7-8MPH and sustaining an impact that does not reasonably distort the rear bumper). This also adds about 15-45 lbs to vehicle weight..
3) Oh yea I forgot - By Being classified as a class-D Motorcycle, it doeswn't require a rear bumper....
4) Class-D Motorcycles do not require Driver's or Passenger Air Bags...
5) Class-D Motor Cycles/Motor Vehicles do not require extensive side impact protection (adds about 300-600 lbs to vehicle weight).
...
Class-D Motor Vehicles (Called tri-Motorcycles) are limited to 1,500 lbs total weight (without occupants).
..
Since the Aptera weighs in around 1,400 lbs - adding the extra weight will put it into a Passenger Motor Vehicle Classification. This means they will have to undergo extensive NTSB Vehicle CRash Testing (Adding 3-9 years to development). Adding all the "required" weight will also mean a different frame structure, and different chassis/body to accommodate all those extra batteries.
..
Classifying an Aptera-e as a car is not going to help it at all - it will Kill It!!!
...
Besides, no one outside of California can get one anyway. Their sales and ownership is limited to California Residents "ONLY". Don't think you can get cute and order one with a California address alone, they will foind out and cancel the order.
..
An associate (who is an MD and also has a legal degree has a home on the Beach in San Diego) ordered one using her San Diego California address. All went well for about 6-months, then she got a registered letter sent to her Boston, MA address that included a Check for her deposit. The enclosed letter notified her that she had violated the terms of purchase, that her address in California was a secondary address, that she was in fact a Boston. MA resident and therefore not eligible to purchase the Aptera at this time. The envelope also included a California DMV provided copy of her MA Driver's license. She was really pissed (- sorry " Upset).
...
Despite all of this (Happened two years ago) Aptera has yet to deliver a single vehicle as I understand it. Great idea, and looks like a great little vehicle - but odering one, and getting one actually seems like two different possibilities.
..
Since you are in Chattanooga, TN - they won't sell you one. Besides, do you think it will make it up north on the I-65 (It's a really long uphill climb)??
,,
Dave
Phoenix-Karts
So By Car - They mean an Automobile?
...
The Aptera 3-Wheel vehicle has always been classified as a "Motorcycle" - Why? Because a motorcycle does not have to comply with NTSB On-Road Passenger Car Safety Equipment Requirements...
ie:
1) They don't require the Front and Rear 5MPH Bumper assemblies (adds about 350 lbs to the vehicle weight).
2) They don't have to comply with the rear bumper Impact test certification (backing into a pole at 7-8MPH and sustaining an impact that does not reasonably distort the rear bumper). This also adds about 15-45 lbs to vehicle weight..
3) Oh yea I forgot - By Being classified as a class-D Motorcycle, it doeswn't require a rear bumper....
4) Class-D Motorcycles do not require Driver's or Passenger Air Bags...
5) Class-D Motor Cycles/Motor Vehicles do not require extensive side impact protection (adds about 300-600 lbs to vehicle weight).
...
Class-D Motor Vehicles (Called tri-Motorcycles) are limited to 1,500 lbs total weight (without occupants).
..
Since the Aptera weighs in around 1,400 lbs - adding the extra weight will put it into a Passenger Motor Vehicle Classification. This means they will have to undergo extensive NTSB Vehicle CRash Testing (Adding 3-9 years to development). Adding all the "required" weight will also mean a different frame structure, and different chassis/body to accommodate all those extra batteries.
..
Classifying an Aptera-e as a car is not going to help it at all - it will Kill It!!!
...
Besides, no one outside of California can get one anyway. Their sales and ownership is limited to California Residents "ONLY". Don't think you can get cute and order one with a California address alone, they will foind out and cancel the order.
..
An associate (who is an MD and also has a legal degree has a home on the Beach in San Diego) ordered one using her San Diego California address. All went well for about 6-months, then she got a registered letter sent to her Boston, MA address that included a Check for her deposit. The enclosed letter notified her that she had violated the terms of purchase, that her address in California was a secondary address, that she was in fact a Boston. MA resident and therefore not eligible to purchase the Aptera at this time. The envelope also included a California DMV provided copy of her MA Driver's license. She was really pissed (- sorry " Upset).
...
Despite all of this (Happened two years ago) Aptera has yet to deliver a single vehicle as I understand it. Great idea, and looks like a great little vehicle - but odering one, and getting one actually seems like two different possibilities.
..
Since you are in Chattanooga, TN - they won't sell you one. Besides, do you think it will make it up north on the I-65 (It's a really long uphill climb)??
,,
Dave
Phoenix-Karts
Yikes. I never noticed before how wide the Aptera is. Notice in the picture how the right wheel is outside the lane while the left is pretty close to the curb. I thought at first that it must be a bicycle lane but there's a car in the background parked in the same lane.
The article refers to a DOE classification for the purpose of qualifying for grant money. Perhaps this has no bearing on the DMV rules regarding safety standards.
I liked the idea of the Aptera at first but now I think that it's over built. What I really want is a single seat reverse trike for my commute to work. Why drag all the extra weight around when I don't need it for 90% of my driving. I ride a motorcycle now for this purpose but the weather is only agreeable about six months of the year.
The article refers to a DOE classification for the purpose of qualifying for grant money. Perhaps this has no bearing on the DMV rules regarding safety standards.
I liked the idea of the Aptera at first but now I think that it's over built. What I really want is a single seat reverse trike for my commute to work. Why drag all the extra weight around when I don't need it for 90% of my driving. I ride a motorcycle now for this purpose but the weather is only agreeable about six months of the year.
Phoenix-Karts
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The Aptera is not much wider than an average mid-sized production car. The photos are a bit deceiving. The out rigger front wheel cowls are a bit of a concern. Over the past ten to twenty years this design has been used on plenty of Reverse Trike designs. Four actually have wheels inside the body structure (just like a regular production car).
..
The disadvantage of a trike (with one wheel out front) is that they don't corner well, and are unstable when braking on a turn. The reverse trike design solves this instability. Although they are in fact just as unstable during extreme acceleration on a sharp curve (which is less likely in the event of an unexpected curve - since the tendency of any sane driver is to brake, not accelerate should they encounter a sharp turn in the road). During a de-accelleartion and braking event, the reverse trike puts the weight on the front wheels and the center of gravity shifts forward, which puts more traction where it is needed. The inherent low center of gravity design keeps the forward weight shift during hard braking from removing an excessive amount of traction weight from the rear wheel (which keeps the rear wheel from skateboarding around and causing the vehicle to spin - like a pickup truck when you slam on the brakes at high speed)
...
...We are gearing up to market a kit car.. One that is a Reverse Trike Design. Our vehicle has already been successful as a Gas Engine Kits, with over 40K built as kits. We are planning on offering a multi-stage kit that scales from just plans, to sub assemblies to be assembled by the new owner. Kinda like our High Performance Go-Kart Kits.
The Vehicle Design we have chosen has two major advantages:
1) It can be built to run on Gasoline (gets 55-95MPG)..
2) EV Version gets 65-145 Miles per charge.
The Gasoline Version can be later converted to an EV, should one want to build the gasoline version first.
..
The advantage pof the Class-D Motorcycle classification is the fact that all the heavy and expensive safety devices required of Motor Vehicles is avoided. Classifying the Aptera as a non-Class-D Motorcycle will result in Motor Safety Equipment upgrades - Trust Me "IT WILL BE A REQUIREMENT TO QUALIFY FOR THE FEDERAL GRANT MONEY". Also classifying the Aptera as a Motor Vehicle (a Passenger Car) will also put all other reverse trike designs at risk of being reclassified as well. This will do nothing for the EV Market, but solidify the Top five Automakers as the sole builders of EVs and Hybrids, This action will kill EVs - just like it killed E85 Fuel and Bio Fuels research.
..
Arizona Passed an E-85 Bill that did just that. It changed the Phoenix Metropolitan Oxygenated Fuel specification (the Fuel Formula required in the Metropolitan Phoenix Emission Control District) to "improve" the oxygenated fuel sold at the pumps. The new standard added a "locking" catalysts to the fuel standard, it then added that all Gasoline that is used for E-85 Fuel must per purchased as "Oxygenated Fuel" with the new Fuel Standard. Since the locking agent eliminates the ability to mix ethanol after it leaves the oil company racks - the oil companies are the only ones who can blend and sell E-85 in metropolitan Phoenix, AZ. Tuscon isn't in the Pollution Control District, so E-85 is available in Tuscon. Naturally, the State of Arizona Department of Transportation has an E-85 Pump for state and Government vehicles (they don't have to comply with the fuel requirements, and are therefore able to truck in E-85 from Prescott - which doesn't have the emissions additive requirements of Metro Phoenix).. This is why changing rules for the sake of one design, changes the rules for everyone and generates local options incentives to restrict development and growth (which is exactly one of the reason's the economy is in the tank - Special interest groups have taken control of the government, which only cares for the special interest groups that put the most money in the politicians personal pockets).
..
Reclassifying the Aptera is a Bad Idea - a REALLY BAD IDEA...
...
Just like reclassifying Go Carts and NEVs (Neighborhood Electric Vehicles) would be a bad idea. The difference between a Golf Cart and an NEV is the fact that an NEV has a) Headlights and Taillights, b) A safety glass laminated windshield, c) Brake and Signal Lights, and d) Occupant Safety restraints (seat belts). Naturally, most Golf Carts already have aa) Bumpers, and bb) Horns. The difference between Go-Karts and Golf Carts is small, but Go-Karts must present a minimal vehicle height (To top of Roof) of 54 inches (the roll bars must reach a height of 54"), and must have a 6" ground clearance, along with the NEV safety requirements to be licensed for On-road use. NEVs don't require Air bags, nor Side Impact protection. In fact, they don't een require doors, just occupant restraints. naturally, NEV's are llimited to to 45MPH Top Speed (45MPH in a Go Kart is fast...)
..
There you have it gang - For those of you who want to be able to ride your Go_kart on the city streets - meet the requirements and the DMV will give you a tag license plate). Of coarse, the little ones (under 14) will not be able to ride it on the street, but they can still ride it in the yard...
...
As for our car development: WE are still in negotiation phase on some of the intellectual property rights..
..
Also, still looking for Angel Investors (I have about $495K into project - but need another $500K to $1.2M to finish. Legal fees and intellectual property negotiations have eaten away all the seed money).
..
Maybe in the next year or so we can get up and running again..
..
Meanwhile We'll just limp along on the Electric and Gas High Performance Go-Kart business..
...
Take care...
Dave Mason
..
The disadvantage of a trike (with one wheel out front) is that they don't corner well, and are unstable when braking on a turn. The reverse trike design solves this instability. Although they are in fact just as unstable during extreme acceleration on a sharp curve (which is less likely in the event of an unexpected curve - since the tendency of any sane driver is to brake, not accelerate should they encounter a sharp turn in the road). During a de-accelleartion and braking event, the reverse trike puts the weight on the front wheels and the center of gravity shifts forward, which puts more traction where it is needed. The inherent low center of gravity design keeps the forward weight shift during hard braking from removing an excessive amount of traction weight from the rear wheel (which keeps the rear wheel from skateboarding around and causing the vehicle to spin - like a pickup truck when you slam on the brakes at high speed)
...
...We are gearing up to market a kit car.. One that is a Reverse Trike Design. Our vehicle has already been successful as a Gas Engine Kits, with over 40K built as kits. We are planning on offering a multi-stage kit that scales from just plans, to sub assemblies to be assembled by the new owner. Kinda like our High Performance Go-Kart Kits.
The Vehicle Design we have chosen has two major advantages:
1) It can be built to run on Gasoline (gets 55-95MPG)..
2) EV Version gets 65-145 Miles per charge.
The Gasoline Version can be later converted to an EV, should one want to build the gasoline version first.
..
The advantage pof the Class-D Motorcycle classification is the fact that all the heavy and expensive safety devices required of Motor Vehicles is avoided. Classifying the Aptera as a non-Class-D Motorcycle will result in Motor Safety Equipment upgrades - Trust Me "IT WILL BE A REQUIREMENT TO QUALIFY FOR THE FEDERAL GRANT MONEY". Also classifying the Aptera as a Motor Vehicle (a Passenger Car) will also put all other reverse trike designs at risk of being reclassified as well. This will do nothing for the EV Market, but solidify the Top five Automakers as the sole builders of EVs and Hybrids, This action will kill EVs - just like it killed E85 Fuel and Bio Fuels research.
..
Arizona Passed an E-85 Bill that did just that. It changed the Phoenix Metropolitan Oxygenated Fuel specification (the Fuel Formula required in the Metropolitan Phoenix Emission Control District) to "improve" the oxygenated fuel sold at the pumps. The new standard added a "locking" catalysts to the fuel standard, it then added that all Gasoline that is used for E-85 Fuel must per purchased as "Oxygenated Fuel" with the new Fuel Standard. Since the locking agent eliminates the ability to mix ethanol after it leaves the oil company racks - the oil companies are the only ones who can blend and sell E-85 in metropolitan Phoenix, AZ. Tuscon isn't in the Pollution Control District, so E-85 is available in Tuscon. Naturally, the State of Arizona Department of Transportation has an E-85 Pump for state and Government vehicles (they don't have to comply with the fuel requirements, and are therefore able to truck in E-85 from Prescott - which doesn't have the emissions additive requirements of Metro Phoenix).. This is why changing rules for the sake of one design, changes the rules for everyone and generates local options incentives to restrict development and growth (which is exactly one of the reason's the economy is in the tank - Special interest groups have taken control of the government, which only cares for the special interest groups that put the most money in the politicians personal pockets).
..
Reclassifying the Aptera is a Bad Idea - a REALLY BAD IDEA...
...
Just like reclassifying Go Carts and NEVs (Neighborhood Electric Vehicles) would be a bad idea. The difference between a Golf Cart and an NEV is the fact that an NEV has a) Headlights and Taillights, b) A safety glass laminated windshield, c) Brake and Signal Lights, and d) Occupant Safety restraints (seat belts). Naturally, most Golf Carts already have aa) Bumpers, and bb) Horns. The difference between Go-Karts and Golf Carts is small, but Go-Karts must present a minimal vehicle height (To top of Roof) of 54 inches (the roll bars must reach a height of 54"), and must have a 6" ground clearance, along with the NEV safety requirements to be licensed for On-road use. NEVs don't require Air bags, nor Side Impact protection. In fact, they don't een require doors, just occupant restraints. naturally, NEV's are llimited to to 45MPH Top Speed (45MPH in a Go Kart is fast...)
..
There you have it gang - For those of you who want to be able to ride your Go_kart on the city streets - meet the requirements and the DMV will give you a tag license plate). Of coarse, the little ones (under 14) will not be able to ride it on the street, but they can still ride it in the yard...
...
As for our car development: WE are still in negotiation phase on some of the intellectual property rights..
..
Also, still looking for Angel Investors (I have about $495K into project - but need another $500K to $1.2M to finish. Legal fees and intellectual property negotiations have eaten away all the seed money).
..
Maybe in the next year or so we can get up and running again..
..
Meanwhile We'll just limp along on the Electric and Gas High Performance Go-Kart business..
...
Take care...
Dave Mason
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