Go Kart as regular transportation
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sideways
Unfinished projects king.
Thanks!
Keep us posted on how it goes! Seeing as this will be happening in India then you should be able to get parts considerably cheaper, you could probably get engines direct from the manufacturers in China saving huge amounts of $$$, you could probably use components such as suspension, axles, hubs and brakes from Chinese quad bikes at less cost than using ones you have designed/made. Have a look here and here for Chinese parts. Using parts bought directly from the manufacturer (in bulk obviously), Building these for less than $500 might actually be a reasonable target, the cost of the bodies will be the largest cost I think.How about a small sidecar for bicycles? Or perhaps a sidecar with an engine built into it that just bolts up to bikes?
Sounds like you've got quite a few projects on your hands! Good luck!
Well I live in Australia so I'm afraid I wont really be able to help, I'm happy to help with ideas and design though. Thanks for the offer anyway
. Sounds great! I'd love to go there one day, I love microcars
Here's a few more cars for ideas, KV, Isetta Jagdwagen, Biscuter Zapatilla, Buckboard (there are tonnes of different variations of these, they used to be quite popular in America), King Midget s2, King Midget s3, Crosley Jeep.
I'l find/draw some suitable chassis layouts sometime in the next couple of days.
In America maybe? Remember, in places like this there isn't really a used car market because no one had enough money to buy a new one in the first place.
Thanks
Hayden
Thanks to all. The reservation is in Pine Ridge, South Dakota, not India. I wish it was in India in some ways but that is WAY to far away for an effort there. Plus, there are a lot of organizations working overseas but often we neglect those needs in our own backyard. The efforts of helping those in Pine Ridge will not only help them, but if successful, they can help others similarly situated in other areas of the U.S.
Indeed, a used truck might be cheaper in some situations but then you get into the issue of reliability and upkeep. Trying to keep this a bit more creative and something that is more reliable especially if it is new and a useful in helping employ some of the residents too (in making the "vehicles"). Trying to empower them rather than using the same approaches used in the past of just giving them things (money, food, etc.) because they are in need. Trying to use the resources that they do have available to them in the best way (for example, they get a lot of wind, so I am investigating DIY wind turbines that can help them pump water or provide some electrical resources, also working on developing human powered options using bikes to do an assortment of tasks--approximately 40 percent of the homes have no electricity).
There are some vehicles there on the reservation...up on blocks. BUT, they do not necessarily see these as a resource I don't think. We here, know, that parting out those cars, trucks, etc. and selling those parts via ebay or craigslist can often be a way to earn enough money to get one that actually runs. I am investigating finding software to catalog all of these inoperative vehicles and the parts that are available on them and get them posted. May try to do the posting via ebay, craigslist and/or car-parts.com. Having a more broadly available internet access on the reservation would definitely help with this effort to market the parts.
I am hesitant about buying Chinese parts in some ways. Would prefer to keep this solution as close to home as possible. Keep the jobs here. But I am a practical man too, though. I realize that I might have to go to China, India or other places in some cases to keep the costs down a bit while still purchasing items here. A good example of going overseas is in doing the roofs on their houses (planning to modify sea containers and use passive solar aspects and earth berming, to improve their housing which is many cases is only very old mobile homes in very poor shape). There are several overseas companies in Taiwan that sells metal forming (rolling) equipment used to make the metal panels for roofs. If one of these pieces of equipment was purchased, it could be used by the residents to make their own metal roofing and maybe even as a business to sell to others outside of the reservation.
To Hayden: Australia? I have heard of it...lol.. Actually, your country is on the radar screen more than you know. Australia probably has some of the best methods of harvesting rainwater in the world and other methods to combat drought (given your enduring drought conditions). The Lakota live in an area of lower rainfall (20 inches or so a year and it comes in the form of snow in the winter) so they need to preserve every drop of water they can. Also, the western Australia company of Windpods.com has given me some good ideas about the possibility of developing personal wind resources at residents homes.
Thanks!
Steve
Indeed, a used truck might be cheaper in some situations but then you get into the issue of reliability and upkeep. Trying to keep this a bit more creative and something that is more reliable especially if it is new and a useful in helping employ some of the residents too (in making the "vehicles"). Trying to empower them rather than using the same approaches used in the past of just giving them things (money, food, etc.) because they are in need. Trying to use the resources that they do have available to them in the best way (for example, they get a lot of wind, so I am investigating DIY wind turbines that can help them pump water or provide some electrical resources, also working on developing human powered options using bikes to do an assortment of tasks--approximately 40 percent of the homes have no electricity).
There are some vehicles there on the reservation...up on blocks. BUT, they do not necessarily see these as a resource I don't think. We here, know, that parting out those cars, trucks, etc. and selling those parts via ebay or craigslist can often be a way to earn enough money to get one that actually runs. I am investigating finding software to catalog all of these inoperative vehicles and the parts that are available on them and get them posted. May try to do the posting via ebay, craigslist and/or car-parts.com. Having a more broadly available internet access on the reservation would definitely help with this effort to market the parts.
I am hesitant about buying Chinese parts in some ways. Would prefer to keep this solution as close to home as possible. Keep the jobs here. But I am a practical man too, though. I realize that I might have to go to China, India or other places in some cases to keep the costs down a bit while still purchasing items here. A good example of going overseas is in doing the roofs on their houses (planning to modify sea containers and use passive solar aspects and earth berming, to improve their housing which is many cases is only very old mobile homes in very poor shape). There are several overseas companies in Taiwan that sells metal forming (rolling) equipment used to make the metal panels for roofs. If one of these pieces of equipment was purchased, it could be used by the residents to make their own metal roofing and maybe even as a business to sell to others outside of the reservation.
To Hayden: Australia? I have heard of it...lol.. Actually, your country is on the radar screen more than you know. Australia probably has some of the best methods of harvesting rainwater in the world and other methods to combat drought (given your enduring drought conditions). The Lakota live in an area of lower rainfall (20 inches or so a year and it comes in the form of snow in the winter) so they need to preserve every drop of water they can. Also, the western Australia company of Windpods.com has given me some good ideas about the possibility of developing personal wind resources at residents homes.
Thanks!
Steve
KieranM
Doin It!!
Mate this sounds great, it sounds like it will go down in the history books. Are you receiving funding from charities or is it fund raising by your own methods?
i did a little research, the Lakota are historically called the Sioux. the UN (i don't particularly like one government for the whole world) passed a non-binding Resolution on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples. it was reported that only the US, canada, australia and new zealand would not sign. this may have been good or bad. the fed seems to be waiting out the various tribes so they can reclaim the lands when they die off. wind turbines are easy enough to make, car alternator/generators on a pole with a windmill's blades. these cheap decorative windmills ($50) can serve as a good learning platform. you can either make an adapter for the alt/gen, or belt drive the unit. will you be attaching strings to these donations? it sounds like you guys hit on the Nano from india earlier. $2000 for a car is not bad, if they will be allowed at that price. recent news is that the US will allow them here, but only after emissions and other requisites are met. the price is said to go up to $9k, for a US ready Nano.
the Lakota are historically called the Sioux. wind powered genrators are easy enough in theory; a pole, a car alternator/generator and a windmill blade set. these cheap decorative windmills can be used depending on height needed to harness the wind. the Nano from india is cheap, $2000 per vehicle. but a US ready version is quoted to cost $9000. wow, what a rip off. in North Dakota the fed took land from a res to build a lake, but now the tribes of that res have a major oil find on their hands. you might talk to their elders about funding your cause. just make sure your homework is done, like how close of relations they are to one another (the guilt trip), how much they would be helping, how much the intended recipients will value such help and see if they would be willing bring jobs into their areas. the horse once a vital part of the native american people's cultures, is no longer a suitable means. they are not allowed to hunt buffalo, which was probably the biggest reason for the wide adoption of the horse.
Linksep
New member
Here's a problem I see...if you want to provide kart-building employment then the people need expensive welders, CNC machines, the knowledge and training to effectively use those machines, and finally 240v or 480v electricity.
You also need a market to sell the finished product. They can't just sell karts to each other on the reservation, they need to sell karts on the open market to cover the cost of the raw materials used in making the karts plus profit so they can buy other items and materials used to increase their standard of living.
If you do decide karts and/or mini bikes are going to be a big part of your plan and you're willing to buy all the components so the people on the reservation merely have assembly jobs; then you need to contact the people at www.azusaeng.com as they seem to be the wholesale kart and mini bike parts supplier for the whole country. Try to get W-D (wholesale-distributor) pricing from them. Even if you are not able to meet the minimum purchase requirements they may give you WD pricing, especially if you are an actual 501(c)3 charity and they could write off their lost profit as a charitable contribution.
In all likelihood, their best bet would be to move to the north edge of the reservation and try to sell crap to tourists visiting the badlands on their way to or from the Black-Hills. They have to export something to get dollars coming in.
You also need a market to sell the finished product. They can't just sell karts to each other on the reservation, they need to sell karts on the open market to cover the cost of the raw materials used in making the karts plus profit so they can buy other items and materials used to increase their standard of living.
If you do decide karts and/or mini bikes are going to be a big part of your plan and you're willing to buy all the components so the people on the reservation merely have assembly jobs; then you need to contact the people at www.azusaeng.com as they seem to be the wholesale kart and mini bike parts supplier for the whole country. Try to get W-D (wholesale-distributor) pricing from them. Even if you are not able to meet the minimum purchase requirements they may give you WD pricing, especially if you are an actual 501(c)3 charity and they could write off their lost profit as a charitable contribution.
In all likelihood, their best bet would be to move to the north edge of the reservation and try to sell crap to tourists visiting the badlands on their way to or from the Black-Hills. They have to export something to get dollars coming in.
Good points...
Well, I actually did think about the market issue. They can sell to themselves for awhile for sure. It is not that they do not have any income. It is just that they currently spend a lot of their income on energy needs (propane and wood mainly) and the cost of food as their are virtually no grocery stores there and thus have to pay a premium for food. Plus some medical expenses and some rent (housing) also. That pretty much takes their income. So, in the areas of housing, food, and energy needs, the program will help reduce or eliminate some of those expenses so they will be able to free up some of their income to afford things like transportation (like a go kart, powered bike, etc.) and other needed items (computer, etc.) that could help them improve their standard of living.
Since there will be a need for the welding equipment for more than just the creation of karts (sea container conversions, etc.), then fundraising for that equipment and money for someone who can train residents in welding will be an essential component of the program. They do have electricity on the reservation so that is not a problem. It is just that, due to the high cost of stringing transmission lines and the spread out nature of the residents living there in some areas (rural), then a lot of the residents cannot get connected to electricity. If you have specific recommendations on equipment needed for kart building, I would appreciate it if you could list them all so I can get that info together for inclusion in writing up the synopsis of the program needs (for grant requests).
As to who to sell to off the reservation, well, that will be determined as time goes on. There are other residents of other reservations they could sell to. Also, there are a good number of churches around the country who support them in a variety of ways during the year with smaller donations. Contacting those organizations and asking them to buy some of the karts will be considered. Will have to make sure and do quality work and if so, the demand for the karts will grow over time I think.
But, even if they ONLY sell to themselves, that will be enough as the goal is to improve their transportation options asap. From the karts maybe move up to motor cycles and then maybe cars or trucks. Got to start with the most affordable and then move up. It won't happen overnight, but I think it can work.
If for example, the residents can get to a central location, then perhaps, at least one bus can be purchased to take them to the city (Rapid City is the closest big city) for employment or perhaps shopping at stores such as Costco, etc. where they can stretch their available dollars. They could help share the cost of the gas and the cost of the bus service (driver(s) wages and bus upkeep) would be covered by the tribal government.
Thanks for the link to the supplier. That will be very helpful and I will contact them down the road about what might be the costs of items purchased from them. I might go directly to China or Taiwan if the prices still seem too high. Just will have to wait and see on that one. If the company you list is getting their parts from China, we could too. The only issue of course is whether I could get a China supplier for such a low order volume. If I could convince them that the future market for orders from us would increase, then they might be able to help us short-term in anticipation of future sales. With the economy still languishing, even for China in some respects, they might be willing to be a bit more lax on their minimum order requirements.
There are already some residents who have small businesses there on the reservation and some do sell to tourists. Mostly art items (jewelry, paintings, pottery, etc.). Selling the tourists the go karts (for shipment back to the tourists' homes) is an option I will explore. And the tourists might buy them if they like the quality of the karts and they see that they are helping the residents help themselves by working making the karts.
Thanks!
Well, I actually did think about the market issue. They can sell to themselves for awhile for sure. It is not that they do not have any income. It is just that they currently spend a lot of their income on energy needs (propane and wood mainly) and the cost of food as their are virtually no grocery stores there and thus have to pay a premium for food. Plus some medical expenses and some rent (housing) also. That pretty much takes their income. So, in the areas of housing, food, and energy needs, the program will help reduce or eliminate some of those expenses so they will be able to free up some of their income to afford things like transportation (like a go kart, powered bike, etc.) and other needed items (computer, etc.) that could help them improve their standard of living.
Since there will be a need for the welding equipment for more than just the creation of karts (sea container conversions, etc.), then fundraising for that equipment and money for someone who can train residents in welding will be an essential component of the program. They do have electricity on the reservation so that is not a problem. It is just that, due to the high cost of stringing transmission lines and the spread out nature of the residents living there in some areas (rural), then a lot of the residents cannot get connected to electricity. If you have specific recommendations on equipment needed for kart building, I would appreciate it if you could list them all so I can get that info together for inclusion in writing up the synopsis of the program needs (for grant requests).
As to who to sell to off the reservation, well, that will be determined as time goes on. There are other residents of other reservations they could sell to. Also, there are a good number of churches around the country who support them in a variety of ways during the year with smaller donations. Contacting those organizations and asking them to buy some of the karts will be considered. Will have to make sure and do quality work and if so, the demand for the karts will grow over time I think.
But, even if they ONLY sell to themselves, that will be enough as the goal is to improve their transportation options asap. From the karts maybe move up to motor cycles and then maybe cars or trucks. Got to start with the most affordable and then move up. It won't happen overnight, but I think it can work.
If for example, the residents can get to a central location, then perhaps, at least one bus can be purchased to take them to the city (Rapid City is the closest big city) for employment or perhaps shopping at stores such as Costco, etc. where they can stretch their available dollars. They could help share the cost of the gas and the cost of the bus service (driver(s) wages and bus upkeep) would be covered by the tribal government.
Thanks for the link to the supplier. That will be very helpful and I will contact them down the road about what might be the costs of items purchased from them. I might go directly to China or Taiwan if the prices still seem too high. Just will have to wait and see on that one. If the company you list is getting their parts from China, we could too. The only issue of course is whether I could get a China supplier for such a low order volume. If I could convince them that the future market for orders from us would increase, then they might be able to help us short-term in anticipation of future sales. With the economy still languishing, even for China in some respects, they might be willing to be a bit more lax on their minimum order requirements.
There are already some residents who have small businesses there on the reservation and some do sell to tourists. Mostly art items (jewelry, paintings, pottery, etc.). Selling the tourists the go karts (for shipment back to the tourists' homes) is an option I will explore. And the tourists might buy them if they like the quality of the karts and they see that they are helping the residents help themselves by working making the karts.
Thanks!
The Lakota Sioux
Yep. You are right. They are considered the Sioux. Actually there are several tribes that are called the Sioux. They are a specific smaller group within the Sioux tribe and they generally live on Pine Ridge reservation though there are some who live on other reservations and, of course, some who live off the reservation.
I will not get into the U.S. governments attitude towards the Indians in the U.S. other than to say that it is fairly poor and the fact is that the U.S. government will not be helping them get out of poverty. The U.S. government only helps them enough to barely get by and that is all. The residents are going to have to help themselves improve their standard of living and helping them with the right combination of benefits to accomplish this is what this program is all about.
I am not familiar with the Nano and I will look that up. If the price is, as you say, in the thousands of dollars, it will not be useful at all as affordability is very important here. These are not giveaways to the residents. They will have to purchase the karts. It will most likely be at cost but they will still need to pay. They do have some income. It is just, as I mentioned in another post, they have to spend so much of their income on other items that they have none left at the end of the month. Increasing their available income by reducing their expenses will help in this regard to give them extra funds to buy the karts.
On the wind generator issue. Well, go to www.windpods.com and you can see that this is a different type of wind generator and it does not need to be mounted on a tall tower. It can be used on an existing building or mounted lower and it needs less wind to be useful. Still, mounting them at the highest level possible will help with the turbine energy output. They do have a lot of wind there a lot of the time so even mounting them lower will provide a benefit, even if the benefit is only keeping the lights on or powering a few smaller items (especially where they do not now currently have electricity at all). We will not be able to afford the windpods initially, but may be able to find a DIY design that is similar and use that instead.
Yep. You are right. They are considered the Sioux. Actually there are several tribes that are called the Sioux. They are a specific smaller group within the Sioux tribe and they generally live on Pine Ridge reservation though there are some who live on other reservations and, of course, some who live off the reservation.
I will not get into the U.S. governments attitude towards the Indians in the U.S. other than to say that it is fairly poor and the fact is that the U.S. government will not be helping them get out of poverty. The U.S. government only helps them enough to barely get by and that is all. The residents are going to have to help themselves improve their standard of living and helping them with the right combination of benefits to accomplish this is what this program is all about.
I am not familiar with the Nano and I will look that up. If the price is, as you say, in the thousands of dollars, it will not be useful at all as affordability is very important here. These are not giveaways to the residents. They will have to purchase the karts. It will most likely be at cost but they will still need to pay. They do have some income. It is just, as I mentioned in another post, they have to spend so much of their income on other items that they have none left at the end of the month. Increasing their available income by reducing their expenses will help in this regard to give them extra funds to buy the karts.
On the wind generator issue. Well, go to www.windpods.com and you can see that this is a different type of wind generator and it does not need to be mounted on a tall tower. It can be used on an existing building or mounted lower and it needs less wind to be useful. Still, mounting them at the highest level possible will help with the turbine energy output. They do have a lot of wind there a lot of the time so even mounting them lower will provide a benefit, even if the benefit is only keeping the lights on or powering a few smaller items (especially where they do not now currently have electricity at all). We will not be able to afford the windpods initially, but may be able to find a DIY design that is similar and use that instead.
History books?
Well, not really interested in the history books. Those folks often do bad things or wind up dead. I am not interested in EITHER of those!..lol..
We will see what actually works out with all of this. So many components to get lined up to work. Just have to be patient and give it a go. I have been following the poverty issue on many Indian reservations for years and finally reached a point where I think I have a reasonably good plan to actually make a difference both short-term and long-term. It will take a LOT of people working toward this goal, but it can happen. In the future, I will put up a website to outline the overall plan and I would welcome your input when I do get it up.
Appreciate the encouragement!
Well, not really interested in the history books. Those folks often do bad things or wind up dead. I am not interested in EITHER of those!..lol..
We will see what actually works out with all of this. So many components to get lined up to work. Just have to be patient and give it a go. I have been following the poverty issue on many Indian reservations for years and finally reached a point where I think I have a reasonably good plan to actually make a difference both short-term and long-term. It will take a LOT of people working toward this goal, but it can happen. In the future, I will put up a website to outline the overall plan and I would welcome your input when I do get it up.
Appreciate the encouragement!
Forgot
Not sure exactly on all of the funding sources but it most likely will be a combination of resources. If I could get a grant from a foundation for all of the funding that would be best but it is unlikely to happen, at least initially, as you have to have a pretty good track record of smaller successful projects before getting funding from a foundation (so I suspect). Once I get the full program in a polished presentation form, I think I will be able to get more interest from funding resources. Everyone involved always likes to see a good plan I think.
Not sure exactly on all of the funding sources but it most likely will be a combination of resources. If I could get a grant from a foundation for all of the funding that would be best but it is unlikely to happen, at least initially, as you have to have a pretty good track record of smaller successful projects before getting funding from a foundation (so I suspect). Once I get the full program in a polished presentation form, I think I will be able to get more interest from funding resources. Everyone involved always likes to see a good plan I think.
Well, horses have a cost too and it is everyday. You have to feed them and keep them housed, feed them at times when there is snow on the ground where they can't get grass (if available) and then there are vet bills from time to time, and you need a way to get them to the vet if they are sick as vets don't usually make house calls, especially to more rural locations. You can't really haul too much on a horse (though you could get one to pull a wagon I guess IF you could afford a wagon. And travel by horse can be a bit slower but, of course, not as slow as walking.
Some of these folks can barely feed themselves much less take care of a horse. Easier to afford a few gallons of gas than take care of a horse, I am afraid. Horses are nice to have around, but pretty limited as transportation option.
KieranM
Doin It!!
With the karts they will need to be repaired at some stage. would you be giving out positions as kart mechanics for some of the towns people who have a good interest in the karts, to carry out minor repairs that other people could not do?
Then when a good knowledge of karts is gathered by the "kart mechanics" classes could be set up in order to teach other people.
Then when a good knowledge of karts is gathered by the "kart mechanics" classes could be set up in order to teach other people.
That One Guy
Occational Annoyance
There will not be a need for just a few cheap trucks. The need may be in the thousands. I don't think there are that many used trucks under $1000 in the state of South Dakota, much less that would be for sale. The go karts are only a transition type transportation to getting better transportation in the future. The karts will be used on the reservation only. The nearest big city is Rapid City (56K population) and it is over 100 miles (2 hours one way) away so going there for jobs is not really feasible. There will be a need for some trucks and buying used trucks will definitely be on the agenda, but for most of the transportation needs at first, the go karts look, at the moment, to be the best option.
You are exactly right. There probably are already some residents who have at least some skills in small engine repair and maybe other types of repairs so getting them to get more experience with all of the kart repairs will make them, over time, into experts. Then they could teach others through classes and give those students practical skills that they can make money with on the reservation. It might not be as much as they could make, say living in a city off the reservation, but they would be making some money and helping their brethren as well. Sort of a win-win situation for all involved.
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