Hot burning phase wires

[barryjfriedman]

Help!
United 48v 1800w motor my1020
Tdpro controller 1800w
4 12v 35 ah batteries in series
Switch blue and yellow phase and yellow and green hall to change polarity
Phase wires burning hot - smoked wood I was using to hold screw terms
Are my wires too small a gauge (look like 12 gauge)
Any ideas???
Barry

 

[anickode]

Yeah, you should be at 8ga minimum. I would run 6.

And make sure it's actually copper. A lot of the crap low voltage wire coming over from China is copper clad aluminum.

 

[barryjfriedman]

Do I have to remove me rewrite controller and motor?

It is a cheap motor but why sell it with wires that won’t handle the recommended current?

Thx
B

 

[EpsilonZero]

If the wires are getting hot like that, they need to be replaced. Those wires are turning your power into heat instead of torque and they could be dangerous.

 

[anickode]

Do I have to remove me rewrite controller and motor?

It is a cheap motor but why sell it with wires that won’t handle the recommended current?

Thx
B

Because it's a cheap motor.

The math is simple though. 1800 watts at 48v is 37.5 amps. 12ga wire can handle that kind of current for a short time, but it's gonna create a lot of resistance and heat up quick.

How are the leads connected to the motor and controller? Internally? External lugs?

You mention screw terminals... If those aren't rated for the proper amperage, they'll fry too.

Duty cycle might also be a factor here. That's what percentage of time a component is rated to run at its maximum power. 100% duty cycle = full power all the time. 10% duty cycle = full power for 1 minute, then off for 9 minutes, and so on.

If you can add some photos it might be helpful. I'm going to look up specs right now, but something is being overloaded.

---------- Post added at 11:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:06 PM ----------

Ok so I did a quick search... If the motor is the one I think it is, I'm seeing a rated current of 28 amps with a max current of 40 amps. Basically 1300w continuous, and 1800w surge. That would explain the thinner wires. That 40 amp rating would just be short bursts for accelerating and whatnot. If you're geared high enough that it's taking a full 40 amps to keep it at speed, the motor is overloaded and you probably need to up your gear reduction.

 

[Functional Artist]

Help!
United 48v 1800w motor my1020
Tdpro controller 1800w
4 12v 35 ah batteries in series
Switch blue and yellow phase and yellow and green hall to change polarity
Phase wires burning hot - smoked wood I was using to hold screw terms
Are my wires too small a gauge (look like 12 gauge)
Any ideas???
Barry

Pics would be most helpful

I've used this type motor many times
...@ 48V them wires should NOT be getting hot

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2hGUzKdWd4

Please explain the "Switch blue and yellow phase and yellow and green hall to change polarity" more clearly
...this may be where your problem "originates"

*IIRC Usually when someone "switches" or changes phase wires, to change polarity (the direction of rotation)
...a couple of the hall wires must be "switched" or changed too

Here is a video with info

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXA-rrlZocc

 

[barryjfriedman]

Thanks folks for the feedback...a few pics etc.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B078XCL153/ref=ppx_od_dt_b_asin_title_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

WPHMOTO 48V DC 1800W High Speed Brushless Electric Motor & Controller & Wiring Harness & Forward Reverse Switch For e-Bike ATV Go Kart Moped Mini Bikes Motorized Bicycle by WPHMOTO
• Motor: Rated voltage: 48V DC, Output: 1800W, Rated speed: 4500 RPM, Sprocket：T8F 9T, Peak efficiency: 80%
• Controller: Rated voltage: 48V DC, Current limit : 32A, Conversion efficency: 95%
• Advantages over traditional brushed motor: high efficiency, power frugal, low noise, Long lifespan, stable.
• Suitable for go karts, scooters, e-bike, atv, motorized bicycle, moped, mini bikes, pocket bikes and electric dirt bikes
• Package include: 1 x motor + 1 x controller + 1 x wire loom + 1 x forward reverse switch + 1 x Accelerator Pedal

I have replaced driver sprocket with a 11 Tooth 10mm Double D-Bore Sprocket for #40, #41, and #420 Chain
I have a Live Axle Sprocket 60T
I have a 3 foot - #420 Style Chain
I used Kart Fab’s “Deluxe” Two Seater Plans – lots of steel
I have 145 x 70-6 V Tread Tires and 6" Live Axle Wheels, 1" Bore
I have 4 12v 35 amp hour AGM batteries
I have rewired as noted above for Left Hand side sprocket (Hall Sensor and Phase Wires)

Technical Details
Manufacturer, Brand WPHMOTO
Manufacturer Part Number WPH-TD010-2+WPHTD037+TD057+TD050+TD056-1
Additional Information ASIN B07PWQ6Y94
Date First Available December 25, 2017
Product Warranty: For warranty information about this product, please click here

Wiring:
Battery: Thick Black (Power Negative) /Thick Red (Power Positive)
Motor: Thick Yellow (Motor Negative) /Thick Blue (Motor Positive)
Ignition Switch: Thin Red (VCC)/Thin Blue
Indicator: Thin red (Indicator power output) /thin black (indicator negative)
Brake: thin yellow (Brake signal)/thin black(Negative Power)
Speed governor: Thin blue (Speed handlebar Signal input) /Thin black (Negtive Power) /thin red(5V Positive Power)
Charge Port: Thin red (charge input power Positive) /thin black (Power negative)
Brake Light: Thin red (power Positive) /thin black (Power negative)
The controller has 4 groups neccessary cables: Battery, Motor, Ignition lock, Derailleur (throttle), when hook up these 4 groups cables, the E-bike can run normally. Besides, this controller has other optional functions, you can hook them up according to your applications.

THANKS so much...Barry

 

[anickode]

Wait, did you put a bigger sprocket on the motor and keep the axle sprocket? That's going the wrong direction if you're overloading the motor.

 

[Functional Artist]

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B078XCL153/ref=ppx_od_dt_b_asin_title_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

WPHMOTO 48V DC 1800W High Speed Brushless Electric Motor & Controller & Wiring Harness & Forward Reverse Switch For e-Bike ATV Go Kart Moped Mini Bikes Motorized Bicycle by WPHMOTO
• Motor: Rated voltage: 48V DC, Output: 1800W, Rated speed: 4500 RPM, Sprocket：T8F 9T, Peak efficiency: 80%
• Controller: Rated voltage: 48V DC, Current limit : 32A, Conversion efficency: 95%
• Advantages over traditional brushed motor: high efficiency, power frugal, low noise, Long lifespan, stable.
• Suitable for go karts, scooters, e-bike, atv, motorized bicycle, moped, mini bikes, pocket bikes and electric dirt bikes
• Package include: 1 x motor + 1 x controller + 1 x wire loom + 1 x forward reverse switch + 1 x Accelerator Pedal

I have replaced driver sprocket with a 11 Tooth 10mm Double D-Bore Sprocket for #40, #41, and #420 Chain
I have a Live Axle Sprocket 60T
I have a 3 foot - #420 Style Chain
I used Kart Fab’s “Deluxe” Two Seater Plans – lots of steel
I have 145 x 70-6 V Tread Tires and 6" Live Axle Wheels, 1" Bore
I have 4 12v 35 amp hour AGM batteries
I have rewired as noted above for Left Hand side sprocket (Hall Sensor and Phase Wires)

Technical Details
Manufacturer, Brand WPHMOTO
Manufacturer Part Number WPH-TD010-2+WPHTD037+TD057+TD050+TD056-1
Additional Information ASIN B07PWQ6Y94
Date First Available December 25, 2017
Product Warranty: For warranty information about this product, please click here

Wiring:
Battery: Thick Black (Power Negative) /Thick Red (Power Positive)
Motor: Thick Yellow (Motor Negative) /Thick Blue (Motor Positive)
Ignition Switch: Thin Red (VCC)/Thin Blue
Indicator: Thin red (Indicator power output) /thin black (indicator negative)
Brake: thin yellow (Brake signal)/thin black(Negative Power)
Speed governor: Thin blue (Speed handlebar Signal input) /Thin black (Negtive Power) /thin red(5V Positive Power)
Charge Port: Thin red (charge input power Positive) /thin black (Power negative)
Brake Light: Thin red (power Positive) /thin black (Power negative)
The controller has 4 groups neccessary cables: Battery, Motor, Ignition lock, Derailleur (throttle), when hook up these 4 groups cables, the E-bike can run normally. Besides, this controller has other optional functions, you can hook them up according to your applications.

THANKS so much...Barry

I'm confused

You have a brushless motor (Phase wires & Hall wires)
...but, post/are using a wiring diagram for a brushed motor

 

[barryjfriedman]

Which wire diagram are u referencing?

This is what I found...

---------- Post added at 11:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:11 PM ----------

The sprocket on motor is 11T, the sprocket on live axle is 60T. Isnt that like a 1:6 ratio?

 

[Functional Artist]

Which wire diagram are u referencing?

This is what I found...

---------- Post added at 11:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:11 PM ----------

The sprocket on motor is 11T, the sprocket on live axle is 60T. Isnt that like a 1:6 ratio?

Um...the last one you posted (& that I quoted)

A MY1020 "style" brushed motor has (2) thick "power" wires (usually Blue & Yellow)
...& NO Hall plug/wires

a brushless motor has (3) thick "power" wires (usually Blue, Green & Yellow)
...& (5) thin Hall "signal" wires (usually Red (+), Black (-), Blue, Green & Yellow)

In your first post you say you have a brushless motor
...but, the diagram you posted, only describes (2) "power" wires
...& no Hall wires

* Using a 11T drive sprocket & a 60T driven results in a 5.45:1 gear ratio
(a bit low, if you have a heavy kart &/or big wheels)

How big is your kart?
...& what size tires?

That's why we ask for pics
...so we know what your "actually" workin' with

 

[barryjfriedman]

Thanks again.

Tires are 140/70-6 rear and 10” front
My motor is brushless, 3 phase wires and a hall sensor
1800w 48v dc motor and tdpro controller
4 12v 35 ah batteries

 

[barryjfriedman]

Another

My son backing it up.
Barry

 

[anickode]

Yes, switching two of the three motor leads on a 3 phase (brushless) motor will reverse it.

The issue at hand is, I believe,, your gear ratio. 6:1 is a proper ratio for a 6hp gas engine. Not necessarily for a 1300w electric motor.

 

[barryjfriedman]

What should it be? How do u figure that out? What do u recommend changing? Thanks

 

[Functional Artist]

My Damien kart is made outta water pipe (kinda heavy)
...has a 48V 1,800W brushless motor
...powered by (4) 12V 12AH SLA's
...run @ a 6:1 ratio (10T x60T)
...rolls on 13" x 6" tires
...& "zips" right along

...& I have never had the power/phase wires, get hot
(I even have the phase wire connections on a plastic junction block)

Here is Damien's build thread
http://www.diygokarts.com/vb/showthread.php?t=40084

Now, I have had the Phase wires get hot on a 60V 2,000W motor
...so, the 60V motors come with a ceramic junction block to "handle the heat"

Here is some info on the wires gettin' hot on my 60V motor
http://www.diygokarts.com/vb/showthread.php?t=40167&page=13

FYI: as far as your Phase wires gettin' hot, have ya read thru this thread?
http://www.diygokarts.com/vb/showthread.php?t=43033

 

[barryjfriedman]

From Barry re: current kart

A few pics from my cart.

WPHMOTO 1800w, 48v, max current 37.5, cont current 26 amp
60t:11t sprockets
Brushless, 3 phase
Kart weighs about 125, 80 in batteries, 2 kids 250 lbs - all totaled 455-500 lbs.
Had to reverse phase wires and hall wires to match direction for sprocket.
Phase wires are burning hot as is controller and motor is pretty warm.
Do I need to replace all motor wires and phase wires with lower gauge (maybe 6 vs current 12)? If so - how do I?
Thanks to all!!!!
Barry

 

[Functional Artist]

Yes, switching two of the three motor leads on a 3 phase (brushless) motor will reverse it.

The issue at hand is, I believe,, your gear ratio. 6:1 is a proper ratio for a 6hp gas engine. Not necessarily for a 1300w electric motor.

What anickode is sayin' is that a 1,300W motor has roughly the equivalent in "mechanical" horse power of a ~2HP gas engine

So, a lower gear ratio (like 7:1 or even 8:1) would be the way to go, to "lighten the load" to potentially reduce heat build up

Also, "if" your Hall wires are NOT properly "aligned" (in the proper places) with the Phase wires
...this could potentially be causing extra heat too

* Please list exactly & specifically which of your Phase wires are connected to which others
...& which Hall wires are connected to which others

 

[anickode]

What anickode is sayin' is that a 1,300W motor has roughly the equivalent in "mechanical" horse power of a ~2HP gas engine

So, a lower gear ratio (like 7:1 or even 8:1) would be the way to go, to "lighten the load" to potentially reduce heat build up

Also, "if" your Hall wires are NOT properly "aligned" (in the proper places) with the Phase wires
...this could potentially be causing extra heat too

* Please list exactly & specifically which of your Phase wires are connected to which others
...& which Hall wires are connected to which others

Exactly. You've got a 2hp motor that can spin what, 5000 rpm? So you're geared for like 40-45mph, but the motor just isn't powerful enough to push 500 lbs to that speed, so it's overloading. Badly.

 

[barryjfriedman]

My wiring...

Controller Motor
Green Green
Yellow Blue
Blue Yellow

Hall
Black Black
Red Red
Blue Green
Green Yellow
Yellow Blue

So wit an 11T Driver and a 60T Driven - what should I change to for my style motor and 500lbs?

THX