Ultralight Rev-Tri-Go-Kart build

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vlad

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Hi

A little background - 2 years ago I build a (not so) little electric roadster for my (then) 1.5 and 3.5 year old kids. It looks super cool, drives reasonable fast, handling pretty well, and it was a huge success with my kids and object of envy for other kids. It all started as fun little project to avoid buying ugly plastic car from walmart... and I always wanted to build a car :) Ended up much more expensive then walmart, but much closer to real go-cart in handling and speed.

I called it Spyder 250. And put on a real Ferrari badge just for fun. It has 250w 24v motor, mechanical disk brake, rack and pinion steering, and sport steering wheel with functioning horn buttons. It can take my two kids to 10 mph, and that's after I modified throttle output. I suspect it can do 15mph without limiter. And even faster with smaller gearing (1:7 now). Which is really more speed than I wanted for my two toddlers driving driving around neighborhood





the whole project pics can be found here
https://picasaweb.google.com/105243...authkey=Gv1sRgCMHwqJ-Tw6jOiQE&feat=directlink

Now two years later, my daughter barely fits, so I want to build a new kart, and address some problems with my first project.

1) Spyder can't be adjusted for size. With F1 style seating, there is not much you can do when kid grows up.

2) it's very heavy. Due to plywood construction it's well over 100 lbs, and probably close to 150, don't know for sure. But with two kids in it - I'm seriously worrying about them running over our neighbors.

3) It's one wheels drive. I went with big rear wheels for looks and it's impossible to steer the car with live axle.

4) It's not portable. Kids are limited to our street. Without owning a truck - I can't take this car anywhere.

Next post is on the new project itself
 

vlad

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Naturally all that lead me to this idea for my next project - ultralight composite go-kart with 3 wheels.

Getting rid of 4th wheel reduced weight and eliminates differential problem. I mean, if I can't use the live axle, what's the point carrying that wheel around?
My goal for this project is to build adjustable go-kart that can grow from 5 y.o to 10 y.o and from fast to very fast easily.

With composite floor and maximum use of aluminum, lightweight go-kart wheels and ultralight batteries, and some clever engineering - I think I can do that. My goal is 50-60lbs with real racing go-kart handling and grip.

I plan on using same 24v and 250w motor (not sure if I need bigger at this stage.

Also being just 40" long - I designed it to fit into the trunk of my Subie or into the back of wife's SUV! So we can take it places.

So the idea right now is to use aluminum T-Slots for longitudal stiffness + composite floor with ribs. T-Slots will provide a way to easily adjust/replace motor, seats, pedals and steering parts.



Green is the motor, orange batteries.




Exact steering design is in the works... not even started :)
I have nothing to weld real bracket to, so I'm thinking about some innovative way to build spindle "brackets"


The plan at the moment is to bolt T-Slots on the top to the composite floor with ribs. Being a triangle I hope it'll give me pretty stiff frame. I'm sure it'll be stiff in 0 and 90 directions. Not sure how this will work for twisting.

 
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vlad

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Bought slightly used 5x10 go-kart tires off of ebay. Have one spare tire too :)

First mockup of the chassis:





 

vlad

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Purschased two 15 series black anodized T-Slots on ebay. 48" long. By my calculations deflection for kids weight will be around 0.01"

 

vlad

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Been busy on ebay again. Hub City composite pillow bearing for the rear axle. 11.5 oz each. Real light for nice quality self aligning 1" bearings with mount! Cast iron ones are 3-4 times that

 

firemanjim

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Do you realize that you have 2 threads on the same subject, in different sections? Thats kinda frowned upon here. I just posted to the other one, now i see this one......... :toetap05::toetap05::toetap05:
 

vlad

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Do you realize that you have 2 threads on the same subject, in different sections? Thats kinda frowned upon here. I just posted to the other one, now i see this one......... :toetap05::toetap05::toetap05:

The first thread was asking for advice and critique, this one is for build. It's just the beginning is kinda the same. Anyway, the other one should be deleted then
 

vlad

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I really like "Stingray" name for this kart. It does look like one. But it's already taken by Corvette :(
 

firemanjim

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Ask a mod to link that one to this one, as there are posts in that one already.....
You can call it the Stingray, and on the sides make a "badge" like the vette V8, but put 24 inside the V . How bout just Stinger A 250.......? Build you a version and it could be Stinger A 125 (cc)...... Dads GOT to have gas....... lol
 

machinist@large

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Purschased two 15 series black anodized T-Slots on ebay. 48" long. By my calculations deflection for kids weight will be around 0.01"


While 80/20 is an extremely handy product that can handle a great deal, that loading is best kept stationary. Speaking from personal experience, it's not the rails themselves that will give you grief, it's the bolted connections that most people use. Since it's anodized and heat treated, welding is extremely problematic, and seriously not recommended.

I'm really not sure how you would integrate this into your design, and I refuse to say it can't be done; you just need to remember the limits of the material....
 

vlad

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While 80/20 is an extremely handy product that can handle a great deal, that loading is best kept stationary. Speaking from personal experience, it's not the rails themselves that will give you grief, it's the bolted connections that most people use. Since it's anodized and heat treated, welding is extremely problematic, and seriously not recommended.

I'm really not sure how you would integrate this into your design, and I refuse to say it can't be done; you just need to remember the limits of the material....

Well, too late now! I got two nice black 15 series pieces coming. I'm planning on attaching floor with bolts every 5 inches or so, with big washers. Rear axle mounts - just drill through and use 5/16 or 7/16 bolts. Steering design/ attachment is not finalized yet. (barely started) :)

If it's not gonna work - I can always ubolt it and replace with solid aluminum square tube
 

vlad

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15 series 80/20 came in. Boy, they are TOUGH. I tried to step on one (I'm 220 lbs) and will flex about 1/10 supported about 45" apart. very non scientific measurement suppoorting my previous calculations. All that at exactly 1 lb/ft. So two beams will be <6 lbs





My composite mount fits perfectly:


25 wide support nuts weight exactly half a pound. Hmm, better not use them all.
 

machinist@large

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15 series 80/20 came in. Boy, they are TOUGH. I tried to step on one (I'm 220 lbs) and will flex about 1/10 supported about 45" apart. very non scientific measurement suppoorting my previous calculations. All that at exactly 1 lb/ft. So two beams will be <6 lbs


The reason these things are so tough are because they are made of a heat treated grade. Also, if you look at the cross section, you can see just how difficult to try to weld it, even without worrying about how to deal with the anodize treatment.

I had to go digging for my old notes to translate your earlier post about "15 series"; 1.5" x 1.5" cross section, and I stand by my earlier comment; the material is plenty strong, it'll be the connections that will give you any issues. I have to strongly stress again that using 80/20's web site's design help section would save you a great deal of work and trouble.......

:thumbsup: Pat
 

vlad

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Yes, I did look at their design tools. There just all sorts of calculators there. But I already did some calculations based on common formulas and extrusion properties listed for the 15 series beam.

Just wondering - where in West Michigan are you?
 

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Seat came in today! Fit both kids pretty nice, with a few inches to spare. Cool looking and is just 2.6 lbs!

I'll need to come up with some kind of brackets to attach it to the slots in 80/20. The idea is to be able to quickly adjust it forth and back so both kids can be in perfect position

 

Poboy kartman

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I'm a bit disappointed at the prices emachineshop quoting for custom aluminum parts...

So I'm thinking of picking up blade like this for my miter saw and cutting 3/8 aluminum plates myself. YOu think it'll work?

http://www.amazon.com/Oshlun-SBNF-1...535564&sr=8-2&keywords=10"+aluminum+saw+blade

That's fine if you want to waste money. ..Go to Home Depot and buy a cheap Irwin or something. You don't need a special blade for aluminum- any carbide blade will do just fine. Check the labels they all cut wood and non-ferrous metals......

Edited: I've done this many times but one caveat- it's an absolute must that the material be tight against the fence. Any twist and aluminum is more prone to bind. The heavier the blade, the more teeth, and the sharper- the better the cut but a lot of guys use old blades. Me- I just use whatever blade is on there. I don't think it dulls the blades any faster than MDF or some hardwoods and often the blades cut better after because it removes the pitch buildup.
 

vlad

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That's fine if you want to waste money. ..Go to Home Depot and buy a cheap Irwin or something. You don't need a special blade for aluminum- any carbide blade will do just fine. Check the labels they all cut wood and non-ferrous metals......

No, I don't want to waste money! this project is already over budget, and I haven't even really started :)

Will the cheap blade from HD leave a nice edge/cut though? It'll be kinda difficult to return after I try...
 

Poboy kartman

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No, I don't want to waste money! this project is already over budget, and I haven't even really started :)

Will the cheap blade from HD leave a nice edge/cut though? It'll be kinda difficult to return after I try...

The blade is only part of the equation. Does the arbor of the saw have any wobble to it? How large is the blade? The larger the blade, the fewer the teeth the more chattering and deflection is going to occur, and the cut will be rougher. Will this blade for $50 leave a machined edge? Probably not. It's likely though that a cheap skill saw blade will cut nearly as cleanly. I often use them and shim up the base or put them in a table saw. Regardless, you're not going to get as fine a cut as a fine metal blade on a bandsaw but you should get results you can live with.

What blade is on your saw now???
 
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