Newbie with an attitude.

[sante230]

Hey guys, I am excited to be apart of the DIY kart crew. My name is Jason I am from Utah. I just got into karts a few months ago. It all started when I was looking at a large selling platform like craigs list a few months ago and found a bunch of go karts for sale for super cheap. a bunch of friends of mine and myself all bought a bunch of "off road" go karts that we race on a dirt track we made. We all all 25-35 years old and I can't believe how much for this is.
some of our rules we made up-
Rules are-
-Frame can't sit higher then 7" off the ground
-Has to have roll bar
-seat belt
-6.5hp or less motor
-$250 total budget plus $25 added to budget every race you attend.
-only mods currently allowed are intake exhaust rejet and valve springs.
-parts you sell that came with the cart count as negatives on your budget allowing you to spend that money on the kart.
-safety mods don't count against the budget.
-has to have a solid rear axle.

Anyways it has been a blast.
Here is the first kart I bought for $200 (Sold the paddle tires that came with it for $150)-


First Race, I am kart on left side of picture.


decided I needed suspension..
Then I picked up this yerf dog 3203 for $100-


I converted it to a center steer single seat. I used a seat from one of my old racecars


Put the predator 212 motor in it.

Then I converted it to a disk brake.. As you can tell its is a tight fit!!



I just ordered a knock off 40 series for it and plan on doing all I am allowed to the engine over the next few races.


BTW I have a Great attitude

 

[sante230]

New from Utah

New guy here with a few go karts. I'll post pics in a bit. I made a post that I spent time on but it didnt post for some reason.

 

[OzFab]

It posted but it was sent to moderation due to all the pics, it's a spam filter...

I'll check it now

EDIT: You should be able to see it now...

 

[OzFab]

Nice

It's a good thing they all have rollcages because seatbelts without a cage is a bad idea...

Hey wait, won't a 40 series blow the budget? & why not just a 30 series?

 

[sante230]

Nice

It's a good thing they all have rollcages because seatbelts without a cage is a bad idea...

Hey wait, won't a 40 series blow the budget? & why not just a 30 series?

Thanks for unlocking the post. Yes One of the rules is it has to have a cage for safty.
Here is a picture from race number 2


I have 3 races under my belt that gives me $75. I will need a few more races before I am allowed to install the 40 series. I have a 30 on it now and I am not happy with it. Its old, It works ok but it doesn't like the hills. From my understanding the 40 series will work better for me on hills and hard starts due to the larger thickness of the belt. I also believe I will be on the HP line or maybe past it with the mods we are currently allowed to do.

 

[OzFab]

Thanks for unlocking the post. Yes One of the rules is it has to have a cage for safty.

Sounds like a good rule

Here is a picture from race number 2

I hope they didn't stay in that position for too long, it's not good for an engine to lay on its side for too long...

I have 3 races under my belt that gives me $75. I will need a few more races before I am allowed to install the 40 series. I have a 30 on it now and I am not happy with it. Its old, It works ok but it doesn't like the hills. From my understanding the 40 series will work better for me on hills and hard starts due to the larger thickness of the belt.

Not that I have any experience with TCs at all but, it sounds like somethings not right. Apart from excessive inclines (I'm talking 45°) a 30 series should pull you up hills with no problem

Someone with more experience should chime in soon to help you with that one...

I also believe I will be on the HP line or maybe past it with the mods we are currently allowed to do.

A 30series is rated to 8hp; with the engine mods allowed, you'd be stretching it to exceed that

 

[Doc Sprocket]

Neat stuff! Welcome to DIYGK. Looks like you guys have a ton of fun!

 

[sante230]

Neat stuff! Welcome to DIYGK. Looks like you guys have a ton of fun!

Thanks. We do have a great time!

 

[Kelly Wood]

Where in Utah?

Kelly "KartRods" Wood
In Salt Lake City.

 

[sante230]

Lehi. What kind of kart do you have?

 

[OzFab]

Lehi.

Can you now add that to your profile please

What kind of kart do you have?

Did you seriously just ask that question? Look here

 

[Poboy kartman]

Lehi. What kind of kart do you have?

KART? Your newbie is showing. ........BTW -Please fill out your profile so we know where you are from when you post elsewhere. ....Check out "kartrods"......

 

[Kelly Wood]

Lehi. What kind of kart do you have?

Lehi, excellent. Just 20 min away.

I have a few karts. Yup.

What you're doing is killer.

 

[Poboy kartman]

Lehi, excellent. Just 20 min away.

I have a few karts. Yup.

What you're doing is killer.

UH OH- Does this mean we're going to be seeing a "Luny Rover" kartrod sandy with a Dominoes pizza pan satellite dish in the future?

 

[Kelly Wood]

UH OH- Does this mean we're going to be seeing a "Luny Rover" kartrod sandy with a Dominoes pizza pan satellite dish in the future?

That's funny, but nope. No dune buggies for me. Not my thing.

Maybe I'll buy one & join these guys but I won't go all custom on it like I do my other rides.

 

[KartFab]

It all started when I was looking at a large selling platform like craigs list a few months ago

i miss KSL Classifieds

I will need a few more races before I am allowed to install the 40 series. I have a 30 on it now and I am not happy with it. Its old, It works ok but it doesn't like the hills. From my understanding the 40 series will work better for me on hills and hard starts due to the larger thickness of the belt. I also believe I will be on the HP line or maybe past it with the mods we are currently allowed to do.

If you really want to win races, read this novel that i just wrote (its only about yoru torque converter dillema, not anything engine related)

I am not an expert on torque converters by any means, but this is what I can tell you that may help you make a more informed decision.

1) a 40 series is a bigger torque converter mostly suited for big block small engines. If you are pimping out your engine thats just a smaller block engine(3-7 hp size), the 40 series will probably not help as much as you are thinking right now. There is no replacement for displacement. The 40 series may add additional drag/load to the engine compared to the 30 series torque converter as well as throwing your gear ratios off (see below).

2) Gear ratios will KILL you with the 40 series TAV A Low (starting gear ratio for the TAV) gear ratio will determine how easily you can climb a hill or do a wheelie etc(a bigger numbered low/starting ratio= better hill climbing, faster starts etc). A High (final ratio that the TAV acheives) ratio will determine how fast you will possibly be able to go at max rpm. (the the lower your high/final ratio is, the FASTER your TOP SPEED will go at max rpms

for example the low/high ratios for a 6" driven 30 series TAV is 2.68/0.9.
the 7" driven 30 series torque converter low/high is 3.13/1.12, and finally the 40 series 7 1/2 driven low/high is 2.43/1. All this mumbo jumbo means this:

All else the same, if you just swap out your current torque converter with a 40 series torque converter, you will get LESS torque(crappier starts, crappier hill climbs), and possibly a little more top speed (im assuming you have the 7" driven unit). More importantly, though, the range between the low and high ratios on a 40 series is crap compared to a 30 series (and that is the main reason NOT to use the 40 series)

3)If that doesnt make sense, here is another way to look at it: with 3 examples

A STOCK Yerf Dog 3203 right now (no modified engine) has:
20" tires, 60 tooth axle sprocket, and a 9 tooth jackshaft sprocket, and an engine that revs to 3600 rpm

A 6" driven 30 series tav actual gear ratio (includes TAV and tires) would be 17.86666667 low and 6 high giving you decent low end torque, and a top speed of 35.7 mph

A 7" driven 30 series tav (which i think you have) gives you a 20.86666667 low and a 7.466666667 high, with a top speed of 28.7 mph

A 40 series 7 1/2 driven tav will give you a 16.2 low (the LEAST amount of torque out of all three) and a 6.666666667 high to give you a top speed of 32.1 mph

SO... if you have read this much and are like WTF!!? am i going to do?

Forget about the 40 series torque converter, and just swap out the 9 tooth jackshaft sprocket with an 8 tooth jackshaft sprocket, it is a $10 fix.

http://www.bmikarts.com/41-Sprocket-with-58-Bore_p_1050.html

What this will do is:

1)lower your overall high and low start/final gear ratios

• The bad: this lowers your max speed, which may make you lose races that are only on flat ground and no turns.
• The good: this will let you acheive max speed faster (AKA you accelllerate faster than your buddies)
• This will let you climb hills faster than your buddies
• this will let you beat your buddies off the line
• this will help you better maintain max speed on turns (do you find yourself slowing down when turning, even though you are flooring it now? This will help you not slow down when turning.

Example time: lets say you swapped out just that one 9t sprocket for the 8t sprocket (using 30 series/40 series examples like above)

6" driven 30 series 20.1/6.75 31.7 mph top speed
7" driven 30 series 23.475/8.4 25.5 mph top speed
7 1/2" driven 40 series 18.225/7.5 28.5 mph top speed (notice that the 40 series when "directly compared" see original/stock setup high/low/max speed" cannot compare to the 30 series??? less torque, less top speed

SO. there are other ways of pimping your engine out to get faster accelleration to max rpms under load, higher rpms than 3600 etc etc..... its all complicated crap, but I have just focused on the torque converter side of this. Hope that helps!

 

[sante230]

Can you now add that to your profile please



Did you seriously just ask that question? Look here

KART? Your newbie is showing. ........BTW -Please fill out your profile so we know where you are from when you post elsewhere. ....Check out "kartrods"......

I have been on a lot of forums and this is the first one that seems to have an obsession with "filling out your profile". I am not saying its a bad thing but I don't understand it. Almost every thread I have read someone asks for that information but most of the time I don't see why it is relevant.
That said, I will get on that

i miss KSL Classifieds



If you really want to win races, read this novel that i just wrote (its only about yoru torque converter dillema, not anything engine related)

I am not an expert on torque converters by any means, but this is what I can tell you that may help you make a more informed decision.

1) a 40 series is a bigger torque converter mostly suited for big block small engines. If you are pimping out your engine thats just a smaller block engine(3-7 hp size), the 40 series will probably not help as much as you are thinking right now. There is no replacement for displacement. The 40 series may add additional drag/load to the engine compared to the 30 series torque converter as well as throwing your gear ratios off (see below).

2) Gear ratios will KILL you with the 40 series TAV A Low (starting gear ratio for the TAV) gear ratio will determine how easily you can climb a hill or do a wheelie etc(a bigger numbered low/starting ratio= better hill climbing, faster starts etc). A High (final ratio that the TAV acheives) ratio will determine how fast you will possibly be able to go at max rpm. (the the lower your high/final ratio is, the FASTER your TOP SPEED will go at max rpms

for example the low/high ratios for a 6" driven 30 series TAV is 2.68/0.9.
the 7" driven 30 series torque converter low/high is 3.13/1.12, and finally the 40 series 7 1/2 driven low/high is 2.43/1. All this mumbo jumbo means this:

All else the same, if you just swap out your current torque converter with a 40 series torque converter, you will get LESS torque(crappier starts, crappier hill climbs), and possibly a little more top speed (im assuming you have the 7" driven unit). More importantly, though, the range between the low and high ratios on a 40 series is crap compared to a 30 series (and that is the main reason NOT to use the 40 series)

3)If that doesnt make sense, here is another way to look at it: with 3 examples

A STOCK Yerf Dog 3203 right now (no modified engine) has:
20" tires, 60 tooth axle sprocket, and a 9 tooth jackshaft sprocket, and an engine that revs to 3600 rpm

A 6" driven 30 series tav actual gear ratio (includes TAV and tires) would be 17.86666667 low and 6 high giving you decent low end torque, and a top speed of 35.7 mph

A 7" driven 30 series tav (which i think you have) gives you a 20.86666667 low and a 7.466666667 high, with a top speed of 28.7 mph

A 40 series 7 1/2 driven tav will give you a 16.2 low (the LEAST amount of torque out of all three) and a 6.666666667 high to give you a top speed of 32.1 mph

SO... if you have read this much and are like WTF!!? am i going to do?

Forget about the 40 series torque converter, and just swap out the 9 tooth jackshaft sprocket with an 8 tooth jackshaft sprocket, it is a $10 fix.

http://www.bmikarts.com/41-Sprocket-with-58-Bore_p_1050.html

What this will do is:

1)lower your overall high and low start/final gear ratios

• The bad: this lowers your max speed, which may make you lose races that are only on flat ground and no turns.
• The good: this will let you acheive max speed faster (AKA you accelllerate faster than your buddies)
• This will let you climb hills faster than your buddies
• this will let you beat your buddies off the line
• this will help you better maintain max speed on turns (do you find yourself slowing down when turning, even though you are flooring it now? This will help you not slow down when turning.

Example time: lets say you swapped out just that one 9t sprocket for the 8t sprocket (using 30 series/40 series examples like above)

6" driven 30 series 20.1/6.75 31.7 mph top speed
7" driven 30 series 23.475/8.4 25.5 mph top speed
7 1/2" driven 40 series 18.225/7.5 28.5 mph top speed (notice that the 40 series when "directly compared" see original/stock setup high/low/max speed" cannot compare to the 30 series??? less torque, less top speed

SO. there are other ways of pimping your engine out to get faster accelleration to max rpms under load, higher rpms than 3600 etc etc..... its all complicated crap, but I have just focused on the torque converter side of this. Hope that helps!

Thank you so much for taking the time to share this with me. I come from the automotive industry and have very good mechanical knowledge. I consider my understanding of the TAV as decent. I did think, However, that the 7" 30 series had a final drive of .9 also but what you are saying makes sense.
A few things I think I should clear up-
My current 30 series (7" driven) is old and does work however it has rust on the inside of the movable face. It slowly eats away at the belt and doesn't like hard starts because of that as well. I decided to weigh my options and decided that a 40 series was going to be my pick.
Reason 1-
I wanted a new Torque converter and didn't feel like rebuilding or sanding/dealing with the rust.
Reason 2-
The 40 series does handle hard starts and torque better that the 30 series. (I understand that I don't have now nor will i have with the allowed current mods enough torque to exceed the 30 series capability. That said I know we will be adding more mods to the allowed list over time and I don't want to buy another clutch anytime soon.)
Reason 3-
I got a good deal on the 40 series through bulletlines. Kind of a random connections however I am sponsored for wakeboarding though a company called boardco and that connection got me a killer deal with bulletlines because there main focus is wakeboarding towers/ropes and handles/boat lights.
Reason 4-
My kart has plenty of torque as it sits. (Geared 10- 60 with 20" tires) When I start to add mods it isn't going to hurt my torque any.

Some things I didn't consider or give them the amount of weight I probably should have-
Size of the converter is larger giving it more mass and making me lose power.
I knew I was going to loose middle ground going with the 40 series but I don't think I gave that quite enough weight in the decision making process. After all during a race I only have to start once..

I would love to read more about your engine performance ideas. You have a fantastic way of explaining your point and have a good understanding of how things work (Based on your response).

 

[KartFab]

I did think, However, that the 7" 30 series had a final drive of .9 also but what you are saying makes sense.

It doesn't, only the 6" does. It's on the first page of this manual.
http://www.bmikarts.com/PDF/Comet_30series.pdf

A few things I think I should clear up-
My current 30 series (7" driven) is old and does work however it has rust on the inside of the movable face. It slowly eats away at the belt and doesn't like hard starts because of that as well.

It's pretty easy to clean a torque converter. The fastest way to remove that rust is with an angle grinder that has a wire wheel attachment on it. This will make the torque converter grippy too . There is a sticky on how to clean them too somewhere on the MSG board. The drive unit is probably gummed up and your belt is probably toast. Belts are pretty cheap too. Over time the sides wear down. If it's old, a new belt and a good clean will really make a difference (REALLY I'm serious), I used to have that same kart, it only went 10 mph... I sold the Tecumseh that was on it and bought a honda clone. This is a video of it with Everything stock, just cleaned out the torque converter and put a new belt on it... Almost instant response when gunning it.

http://youtu.be/wHuNm3yzglA

I decided to weigh my options and decided that a 40 series was going to be my pick.
Reason 1-
I wanted a new Torque converter and didn't feel like rebuilding or sanding/dealing with the rust.

wire wheel easy fix, just clean it.

Reason 2-
The 40 series does handle hard starts and torque better that the 30 series. (I understand that I don't have now nor will i have with the allowed current mods enough torque to exceed the 30 series capability. That said I know we will be adding more mods to the allowed list over time and I don't want to buy another clutch anytime soon.)

the 40 series will force your kart to have smaller amounts of torque unless you swap out your jack shaft sprocket. If your kart isn't acting like the one in the video, you just need to fix the 30 series.

Reason 3-
I got a good deal on the 40 series through bulletlines. Kind of a random connections however I am sponsored for wakeboarding though a company called boardco and that connection got me a killer deal with bulletlines because there main focus is wakeboarding towers/ropes and handles/boat lights.

nice!

Reason 4-
My kart has plenty of torque as it sits. (Geared 10- 60 with 20" tires) When I start to add mods it isn't going to hurt my torque any.

your right, but I thought you were having issues climbing hills and starting up?

Some things I didn't consider or give them the amount of weight I probably should have-
Size of the converter is larger giving it more mass and making me lose power.
I knew I was going to loose middle ground going with the 40 series but I don't think I gave that quite enough weight in the decision making process. After all during a race I only have to start once..

I would love to read more about your engine performance ideas. You have a fantastic way of explaining your point and have a good understanding of how things work (Based on your response).

Thanks! I had to learn the hard way. I found this msg board after I had gone through most of my issues on my own. I tend to shy away from engine mods and keep all my karts "stock" instead of porting/heavier valve springs/governor bypass/header/billet flywheel/com rods...blah blah blah, I just have been getting bigger engines instead. There are plenty of other members that love modifying their engines and could help. Different mods can help with acceleration, mid range power, and max rpms.

 

[Poboy kartman]

As far as an "obsession" with filling out profiles- it helps immensely in controlling the amount and quality of information. It doesn't do anyone any good to give or get advice not pertinent to their area. How many of these other forums have members from Canada, Germany, UK, Africa, India, New Zealand and Australia???????

Even in the United States location matters- it does me no good if someone says " get an old snowblower motor, they're cheap and plentiful. .."

Besides- someone may be closer than you think and it helps in determining shipping. ...

Do you see a reason yet??

 

[sante230]

As far as an "obsession" with filling out profiles- it helps immensely in controlling the amount and quality of information. It doesn't do anyone any good to give or get advice not pertinent to their area. How many of these other forums have members from Canada, Germany, UK, Africa, India, New Zealand and Australia???????

Even in the United States location matters- it does me no good if someone says " get an old snowblower motor, they're cheap and plentiful. .."

Besides- someone may be closer than you think and it helps in determining shipping. ...

Do you see a reason yet??

I hope my message didn't come off rude when I said that. I can see your point. Some people it probably makes more sense for them to post that info.
Like if you are going to sell something Or ask about where to buy something or if you want to meet people in your area.
When I got on here I didn't have any intention of that so I didn't see the point (That said Kelly wood, You should get on finding a budget kart We have more rules when using stuff you already have to keep things more even with guys that don't have stuff already. Let me know if you are really interested in coming out and having a good time.)

Hope you can see where I am coming from and maybe it will make more sense why I didn't see the point.