HF welder with a 10 lbs spool

[jrmints1415]

Just to clear this up i did some research on the easiesdt way to fake a 10 lbs spool work for the HF 90 amp welder. The most common way is to drill a small hole in the back of the welder and feed the wire through. The spool then sits horizontal on a small piece of 2 inch tubing. You do not need a rubber gromet either... some people say you do but that is wrong. I can prove this by knowing how electrons move. They take the path of least resistence in order to form a circuit. When the wire is touched be the little motor that feeds wire ity is electricuted and will travel down to trhe ground clamp then back to the motor leaving the rest of the wire free of electricity. I woulkd highly suggest buying a 10 lbhs spool because it will save you hundreds of dollars in the long run!

 

[devino246]

Just to clear this up i did some research on the easiesdt way to fake a 10 lbs spool work for the HF 90 amp welder. The most common way is to drill a small hole in the back of the welder and feed the wire through. The spool then sits horizontal on a small piece of 2 inch tubing. You do not need a rubber gromet either... some people say you do but that is wrong. I can prove this by knowing how electrons move. They take the path of least resistence in order to form a circuit. When the wire is touched be the little motor that feeds wire ity is electricuted and will travel down to trhe ground clamp then back to the motor leaving the rest of the wire free of electricity. I woulkd highly suggest buying a 10 lbhs spool because it will save you hundreds of dollars in the long run!

If your gonna try to sound smart, dont use phrases like "wire ity is electricuted".

You do need to use a rubber grommet because the body of the welder is grounded. Often you will pull the trigger to feed wire when your not actually welding so it will short and weld the wire to the body of the welder.

The wire is not electrocuted, how do you kill wire with electricity? Current doesnt even travel through the wire feed wheels. A power wire runs through the cable to your gun where it energizes the wire.

And traveling to the ground clamp and back to the motor? you obviously dont understand the principles of electricity.

 

[Bluethunder3320]

i dont think the back panel is actually grounded

but i might be wrong

 

[devino246]

i dont think the back panel is actually grounded

but i might be wrong

I cant see them isolating the back panel. Ill go look at mine.

EDIT: My Century 90amp welder has the whole case grounded, back cover and all.

 

[Bluethunder3320]

maybe i will test it. dremel off a little paint and weld onto the back panel for a second?

ill do it when i get time and im motivated.

 

[devino246]

maybe i will test it. dremel off a little paint and weld onto the back panel for a second?

ill do it when i get time and im motivated.

Actually, now that I think about it, Flux-core runs negative polarity

Nothing would happen.

 

[bighead]

maybe i will test it. dremel off a little paint and weld onto the back panel for a second?

ill do it when i get time and im motivated.

I would not do that. With my luck I would fry my welder.

 

[redsox985]

Just to clear this up i did some research on the easiesdt way to fake a 10 lbs spool work for the HF 90 amp welder. The most common way is to drill a small hole in the back of the welder and feed the wire through. The spool then sits horizontal on a small piece of 2 inch tubing. You do not need a rubber gromet either... some people say you do but that is wrong. I can prove this by knowing how electrons move. They take the path of least resistence in order to form a circuit. When the wire is touched be the little motor that feeds wire ity is electricuted and will travel down to trhe ground clamp then back to the motor leaving the rest of the wire free of electricity. I woulkd highly suggest buying a 10 lbhs spool because it will save you hundreds of dollars in the long run!

This is well and good, but a PITA to read. Aside from the typos, it's just a big brick.

 

[devino246]

Interesting that he hasnt replied...

 

[jrmints1415]

hey devino i just got home frome vacation and i believe im right. The welder is not grounded (corect me if im wrong) but it is on rubeer legs so the curent does not go through the body.

I want to point out that you probably have not even tried this or you would already have mentioned it above... and just to clear this up i hooked up a multimeter to the wire on the spool and guess what... no voltage. So if your going to try and be a smart a$$ then actually try it out for yourself. If you dont belive me i dont really care but hook a multimeter to both the body and the wire spool and tell me what you find.

 

[devino246]

hey devino i just got home frome vacation and i believe im right. The welder is not grounded (corect me if im wrong) but it is on rubeer legs so the curent does not go through the body.

I want to point out that you probably have not even tried this or you would already have mentioned it above... and just to clear this up i hooked up a multimeter to the wire on the spool and guess what... no voltage. So if your going to try and be a smart a$$ then actually try it out for yourself. If you dont belive me i dont really care but hook a multimeter to both the body and the wire spool and tell me what you find.

Your multimeter didnt show any voltage because flux-core is negative polarity. The ground clamp is positive, the wire is negative. I dont need to try this to understand the problems with it.

You must not understand what grounded means. It doesnt mean that its on the ground Your house has 2 copper rods that run 6 feet into the ground, 2 feet appart. Wires run from those rods, through your walls, through the outlet, to your welder to ground it. Thats why your welders plug has 3 prongs rather than 2.

If you pull the trigger to start welding, and for some reason theres a break in the wire running to your gun, or some other reason that the wire isnt correctly being negatively charged, electrons will move through your welders case, through the wire, and **** stuff up.

 

[jrmints1415]

ohh haha so why does the welder not short because ive been doing it this way for a few weeks now and nothing has happened??

 

[devino246]

ohh haha so why does the welder not short because ive been doing it this way for a few weeks now and nothing has happened??

Im not saying it will happen all the time, im saying theres a chance of it happening. Why not just but a $1 grommet and avoid any chance of problems?

 

[jrmints1415]

true but are you saying the body has current flow or the wire in the spool??

 

[devino246]

true but are you saying the body has current flow or the wire in the spool??

The only positively charged part is the ground clamp. The body is grounded (basically negative) and the wire is negative. FYI, electrons move from negative to positive.

 

[machinist@large]

My personal take on what seems (?) to have everyone in an uproar isn't grounded/ ungrounded; what we're discussing is probably known better as back feed.

A clear up: a properly set up welder does not electrically charge the mig wire until the trigger is pulled to start the weld ( i.e. close the appr. contacts inside the machine to give you full power). (Some units will give you a flash if you touch the work piece with the wire/tip after finishing a weld but nothing else; this is not what we're talking about.) The wire doesn't become "HOT" until it passes thru the contact tip at the very end of the gun. Just one of the reasons for this is to keep the wire from trying to weld itself to the inside liner of the gun. Perfect world= electrons will want to "go to ground" thru tip, to wire, weld zone, ground clamp, then back to machine, closing the circuit.

What seems to be the question is, is it going to hurt the welder to not have a grommet (or some other type of electrical protection) where the wire goes thru the case? Probably not. If everything is working as it should, the circuit is closed by the contacts inside the machine. The problem is if there is any weak spots in the insulation/ system, the electrons will look for other, more direct ways to ground. This can cause a lot of strange phantom problems or outright unit failure.

There are a lot of potential problems from back feed; my take? Witch is cheaper (and safer); a grommet or a welder? My money says the grommet wins.

PAH

 

[oscaryu1]

HF 90 amp doesn't have a separate contact/relay/whatever to "charge" the wire once the trigger is pulled, it's always charged, or mine is at least.

I'd be more worried about that little motor pulling that 10lb spool. The motor isn't weak, but the design is flawed. No real grippage coming from the bearing/U groove thing attached to the motor. You start to overtighten the feed mechanism,and then the plastic the bearing is mounted onto begins to warp and bend... and makes it all loose again (remedy by grinding down portions of the plastic part).

PITA...but them 90 amps are hella reliable.

 

[Badot]

Never had one apart... never needed to, but...

If the ground clamp is positive, and the welding wire is ground, and you need those copper contact tips to ground the wire... what happens if the wire doesn't ground to the tip? (dirty, corroded, whatever)

If it grounds off the back of the welder case without being on a GFCI I can imagine that wire will get red hot somewhere along the line... would be real good for the plastic parts. At the very least the exposed spool/wire will be electrically hot, no?

 

[redsox985]

A clear up: a properly set up welder does not electrically charge the mig wire until the trigger is pulled to start the weld ( i.e. close the appr. contacts inside the machine to give you full power).

This is only in the more expensive machines, many cheaper China welders as well as some small brand name ones are always hot, so you must treat them like arc welders and be careful where you set the gun. Despite always being hot, they are set up correctly and working just as designed.

 

[devino246]

Never had one apart... never needed to, but...

If the ground clamp is positive, and the welding wire is ground, and you need those copper contact tips to ground the wire... what happens if the wire doesn't ground to the tip? (dirty, corroded, whatever)

If it grounds off the back of the welder case without being on a GFCI I can imagine that wire will get red hot somewhere along the line... would be real good for the plastic parts. At the very least the exposed spool/wire will be electrically hot, no?

Exactly my point