Predator 212 with mikuni style carb

david-ab

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Hey guys, I'm in the final stages of building my off-road go kart, and I need some help.
My set up is a Predator 212 with the governor removed, billet aluminum flywheel, exhaust & air intake ported, open exhaust, TAV2 CTV, and my final mod was replacing the stock carb with a mikuni style one, but I have some questions:
With this style of carb, do I need to disconnect the pipe that pressurizing the gas tank, and let it be gravity fed only? first time I started the engine with this carb it seemed like too much fuel is getting in the carb, and some of it even sprayed out the carb vent ports. I disconnected the gas tank vent pipe from the valve cover, and it seem to run better.
Also can someone suggest a good starting point for the carb adjustment? what I'm experiencing right now is difficulty in start up and engine bogging.
Thanks!
 

panchothedog

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Yes, just put a little filter on the tank vent, and let it vent to the atmosphere. When you say Makuni style, I assume its one of the cheap Chinese copies. I have two of them. One, I never could get it to run correctly. Put it back in the box and just run the stocker with a bigger jet. Runs real good. The other one I bought from Go Power Sports. They ask the altitude it would be run at, (sea level ) and told me they would jet it accordingly. Works pretty good. No idea what jets are in it. Never have needed to mess with it.
 

david-ab

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Yes, just put a little filter on the tank vent, and let it vent to the atmosphere. When you say Makuni style, I assume its one of the cheap Chinese copies. I have two of them. One, I never could get it to run correctly. Put it back in the box and just run the stocker with a bigger jet. Runs real good. The other one I bought from Go Power Sports. They ask the altitude it would be run at, (sea level ) and told me they would jet it accordingly. Works pretty good. No idea what jets are in it. Never have needed to mess with it.
Yes I think its a chinese knockoff, bought it from amazon, the quality seems very good though, here is the link to the product if it helps:
The main reason for replacing the stock one was the lack of an adjustment screw
 

bob58o

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I would seat the power jet needle to close that off then try to tune it. Like has been mentioned, it’s a feature most useful for 2 stroke engines at high rpm. Or in my case, when I wanted to try to make a wet nitrous system.
 

david-ab

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I would seat the power jet needle to close that off then try to tune it. Like has been mentioned, it’s a feature most useful for 2 stroke engines at high rpm. Or in my case, when I wanted to try to make a wet nitrous system.
The fuel that sprayed from the carb didn't came from the power jet, it came out from the side air vents of the carb (see attached pic)
1714931327067.png
Any suggestions about the carb tune? I don't even know how to start :eek:
 

bob58o

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Videos will probably help more than my written words. Find a video you like, then watch a few more until things start to make sense.
 

Rat

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The fuel that sprayed from the carb didn't came from the power jet, it came out from the side air vents of the carb (see attached pic)

Any suggestions about the carb tune? I don't even know how to start :eek:
Fuel blowing from those vents is a stuck float allowing too much fuel into the bowl. Those vents have no functional purpose beyond keeping the air pressure in the bowl equal to atmosphere.

Hard start, and low range bog is an issue with the mixture screw adjustment, or pilot (in your case I'm betting both) and bog above 3/4 is main jet being too big.

If your carb has a D shaped slide and a Powerjet, it is a Keihin copy NOT a Mikuni, the link provided is for a 24mm PWK copy... DELETE OR OTHERWISE bypass or remove the PJ. They are for 2cycle not 4cycle and will make it impossible to properly jet and tune the main jet in your carb

A Koso 24mm PWK copy is exactly what I use on my 208 which goes like a kicked dog the way Ive dialed it in to play nice with the cam and other mods.
PJ is fully deleted and plugged so that the port doesn't cause inbound flow turbulence into the carb.

Give me your altitude and I can probably ballpark estimate your M/P jet sizes based on what mine ran closer to stock at 975ft and now at 2150ft
1000001352.jpg
 
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david-ab

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Fuel blowing from those vents is a stuck float allowing too much fuel into the bowl. Those vents have no functional purpose beyond keeping the air pressure in the bowl equal to atmosphere.

Hard start, and low range bog is an issue with the mixture screw adjustment, or pilot (in your case I'm betting both) and bog above 3/4 is main jet being too big.

If your carb has a D shaped slide and a Powerjet, it is a Keihin copy NOT a Mikuni, the link provided is for a 24mm PWK copy... DELETE OR OTHERWISE bypass or remove the PJ. They are for 2cycle not 4cycle and will make it impossible to properly jet and tune the main jet in your carb

A Koso 24mm PWK copy is exactly what I use on my 208 which goes like a kicked dog the way Ive dialed it in to play nice with the cam and other mods.
PJ is fully deleted and plugged so that the port doesn't cause inbound flow turbulence into the carb.

Give me your altitude and I can probably ballpark estimate your M/P jet sizes based on what mine ran closer to stock at 975ft and now at 2150ft
My carb does have a D shaped slide and a Powerjet, thank you for referring me to the correct carb type!
The carb has an adjust screw on the PJ, closing it all the will not do the trick? how do I delete & plug it correctly?
where I live it's quite sea level (15ft), what is the right adjustments I need to do?
 

bob58o

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The ones I use don’t have an adjustable jet or the protruding nozzle. Basically just a set screw with a hole in it for a jet.

I use a vacuum cap on each of the two barbs that are connected by the clear tubing and calls it done. I don’t remember what size worked.

1/8”?
3/16”?


IMG_6168.jpegIMG_6169.jpegIMG_6170.jpeg
 

bob58o

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I think last time I tuned a 24mm OKO carb…
212cc, NR-285 cam, 28.5mm intake valve,…
500-600 feet altitutude

“ jets are 35 Idle, 108 main, Needle raised one clip position from stock middle position, power jet capped off”

Might not have been fully tuned, but seemed to start and ride fairly well with that jetting.
This was the first attempt to ride.
 

Rat

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My carb does have a D shaped slide and a Powerjet, thank you for referring me to the correct carb type!
The carb has an adjust screw on the PJ, closing it all the will not do the trick?
It should, but because you're never going to need it, you'll be best to remove it entirely.
how do I delete & plug it correctly?
correctly is a matter of opinion. What I did was pull the brass barb from the bowl out, found a small self cutting screw to run in where the barb was, ran it all the way down before backing it out and notching it under the head so it would twist off when tightened.1000002061.jpg

as for the jet section, (like Bob said most aren't adjustable) I removed the top plug and the jet, then plugged it the same way before grinding down the carb body where the port was. I back filled the jet port with JBweld steel stick (not pulling the air horn to show), then contoured it to match the venturi.1000002063.jpg
where I live it's quite sea level (15ft), what is the right adjustments I need to do?
The default for the mixture screw is turn it in to full seat (don't crank it tight, you'll do damage) then back it off precisely two full rotations.
My pilot at 975 was #39, yours is no doubt going to be the same if not one or 2 smaller for a bone stock engine at 15ft.

Tuning the pilot is fiddley... Guess a size, put it in and use the mixture screw to confirm larger, smaller, or dead on.

1.
Set the idle screw for a slightly high idle (2k if you have a tach) preferably with the drive chain off or on jackstands... spare your back and grab a seat. Let the engine run for a good minute to get up to full operating temp.

2.
Set the needle to default wich is groove #3 for a 5 position needle, #2 for a 4 possition needle (the topmost is #1 and the leanest setting #4/5 are the richest) The needle is only in play for 1/3-almost WOT. Default is precisely 2 turns out from a soft seat (cranking it tight does damage)

3.
If the highest rpm gain turning the mixture screw out slowly (idle air control on these particular carbs) is found at more than 2¾ turns, the pilot is too big so reset to default, jet the pilot smaller and retest.
If the pilot is less than 1¾ turns out at the highest rpm the pilot is too small repeat above with a larger size instead.

4.
You CAN NOT tune the main properly if the pilot is not tuned because a rich pilot will flood when the main comes on giving a false positive rich condition (an overly rich pilot with a perfect main will act like the main is the problem by giving a flat/dead spot just above 1/8 to around 1/3) it can do the same if the pilot is too lean as well.

5.
ONLY after the pilot is sorted out and you can maintain a low smooth idle with the mixture screw in the 1¾-2¾ range do you move onto the main.
At 975 I only needed a #100 and again I would speculate yours will be damn close to the same if not exactly so.

For tuning the main you'll need the drive chain on (or off stands) because it cannot be static tuned. You need it under load and moving.

You will be listening for:
1.
Flat spots, this is where the engine is running but it isn't picking up speed when you give it more throttle, nor is it trying to stall, but then overcomes itself and goes... this is typically a lean main issue.
Plug will be dry, grayish to chalky white.. the more pale it is the leaner you're burning
2.
Bogging same as above but it has an indescribable wet sound almost like engaging a Jake brake...BWUAAAA typically this is rich and if pushed outright they tend to stall.
Plug will be wet, dark, or both
3.
Exhaust popping on deceleration.
While some find it a cool sound effect, if it's crackling and popping like crazy you're still just a little lean on the main and igniting in the hot exhaust header... a little rich can do it as well but the pipe has a more difficult time getting that hot.

Often this can be corrected by moving the needle one Position. There is the default, but unlike the mixture screw there is no "absolutely must be in this specific zone to be right"

Hopefully you read this well, understand it fully, and get it dialed in.
If not I'm always off/on lurking a comment away
 

Rat

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I feel the need to add that over the last two weeks I've found that humidity having been consistently 93%-97% has seriously made it an unhappy engine... it's acting like I'm starting it in 10°F weather 🤣

By that I mean I've got to use choke even though its 80+°F the get it to fire, quickly open the choke but keep thebthrottle cracked open for a minute. My Ducar 212 is doing the same exact thing and it's just as factory stock as Dynocams ships them out.
 
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