Need Advice/Opinions. Pretty new to this

[tglizzo]

Been lurking here as I learned about different part and whatnot but decided to finally make a post to get some ideas/pointers. Been a lot of trial and error which I don't mind it's definitely been fun and I've managed to have only spend ~$300 including the frame, Honda GX270, torque converter, sprocket and other little things. I'll have more photos later but my main concern is trying to shave some weight and length off it. It's 8'x4' and weighs somewhere close to 200lbs maybe I'm weak or maybe it weighs more idk it's definitely a 2 man job anyhow I want to move the steering column towards the middle and try to make it more of a single seater while also keeping a good weight distribution which is why I sorta like it's weight in the first place. I have a 40 tooth sprocket I'm putting on since the 60 I had sits too low to the ground with the karts current low height. Any suggestions on modifications or advice moving forward would be greatly appreciated. This is my first time building one for never even knowing about small engines I rebuilt my 270 reading forums like this. Thinking about cutting that rear bumper off and welding the metal bumber without the braces back on to save weight and length but not sure yet. Would love to get some material to make the chassis like you see on the more professional nicer carts

 

[Denny]

That is an old concession kart. Do not switch to the 40 tooth sprocket, it won’t move. Keep the 60 tooth! That is a very professional frame, don’t change a thing. Might I suggest lifting some weights to build up your strength!!

 

[tglizzo]

That is an old concession kart. Do not switch to the 40 tooth sprocket, it won’t move. Keep the 60 tooth! That is a very professional frame, don’t change a thing. Might I suggest lifting some weights to build up your strength!!

Lol I have to find some way to raise it in order to run the 60. Don't have the money at the moment to do new tires and the gx270 is pushing 9 HP so I have faith it'll still move just with a slower take off. Torque converter should hopefully help. Also why I wanted to take off any unnecessary weight I only paid $95 for the frame and engine. Was a steal

 

[Denny]

Keep the 60 tooth. Build a skid plate if you have to!

 

[tglizzo]

Keep the 60 tooth. Build a skid plate if you have to!

Planned on building the plate. It was already being a bit problematic running a clutch and the 60 tooth but on flat ground we're talking maybe and index finger worth of clearance in ideal conditions. I don't plan on it being a yard kart. I still did want to make it more custom because I like working on things like that and gives me the option to increase it's performance. I already ordered the 40T and if it don't work I'll still have the 60. 50T still an option cause it's at least a bit smaller. Thank you for the input !

 

[ezcome-ezgo]

It probably had an engine with built in 2:1 gear reduction so it could run a smaller sprocket.

 

[Master Hack]

Sometimes they just don't take a learnin.
Maybe a sophomore @ the school of hard knocks?

 

[Master Hack]

Waydaminit!
yer changing to higher gearing, and bigger tires and this thing takes 2 to move it and its a bare frame and yer using 10 hp Itll never werk like that but gud luck and have fun with yer project.

punctuation and spelling modified for understanability!

 

[panchothedog]

If you stay on nice SMOOTH pavement that frame will be O K. For use anywhere else you would be better off eating the $95 and looking for something more conventional. Not really sure how many people need to tell you that a 40 tooth sprocket is going to be a problem. Aside from the weight, the thing is too low to the ground. I wouldn't waste $5 or 5 minutes on that rolling POS. No matter what you do to it, the end result is going to be very disappointing. I think you came for advice, but if you want to argue, well it's your wallet that is going to be the loser. Happy trails.

 

[Denny]

Man, you came to us asking for advice. Now you say we’re the ones that are wrong. Why did you come here if you know better?

 

[tglizzo]

Man, you came to us asking for advice. Now you say we’re the ones that are wrong. Why did you come here if you know better?

I never said anyone was wrong ? Also as someone else mentioned bigger tires and I never said that either. Geez yea I asked for advice and I'm not arguing anything with anyone. I only went for a smaller sprocket for the sake of it not hitting the ground. Also why I mentioned cutting some of the heavy parts off that aren't practical. All I said was I was gonna try to work with what I got and worst case I still have a 60T sprocket? I have one person say don't do anything to it, another saying it's a POS and won't work then told I'm not listening so which is it ? I been respectful and taken into consideration any advice I got. So either some people have bad reading comprehension or just to make me look like I'm being an ***. If it's trash? Cool. Ive only put like ~2-300 total and the engine is a $6-700 engine brand new. That's why I was trying to discuss shaving off weight to be able to accommodate using a smaller sprocket. I've already gotten it to drive with a centrifugal clutch and 60T sprocket.... When I said takes 2 to move it I meant like loading it into a truck bed it's heavy as hell lifting. My plan was to re do the frame and make it lighter. The entire rear bumper and braces are like 1-2 ft that is just added weight and no use. I haven't really gotten advice tho besides 60T sprocket (which I said is too big and has 1/2 clearance from ground), don't do anything to the frame, then it's a POS won't move bc heavy etc etc. Well how am I to adjust the weight when another says leave the frame as is?

 

[Master Hack]

The title says “ need advice/ opinions”.
you were given advice and opinions, and then said yer going to do it your way.
apparantly you don’t want advice or opinions, but rather came here just to tell us how you plan to do it.
Good luck!

 

[Denny]

It’s as heavy as a tank because it was built like one. Nothing you can do about it now. You can’t shave enough weight off that frame to help you. Don’t waste the effort, it will be misplaced work.
Instead put that energy toward changes that will work well and pay dividends. Like increasing ground clearance, a heavy duty sprocket guard. Taller tires are the easiest and cheapest mod. If it’s not in your budget to do so at this time, save more money! Wasting money on sprockets that won’t work or cheeping out on parts ain’t going to cut it in this hobby. It will only lead to disaster and disappointment.
You have had hundreds of years experience telling you the smaller sprocket will not work even with a CVT. How do you think we got that experience? By making bad decisions and listening to others who know more. We are just trying to pass on that knowledge to you. Free of charge!
By listening to us you could have a kart that not only you, your kids and your grand kids could enjoy. We don’t enjoy seeing others fail. The fact is we hate it. There are thousands of years experience on this board. Many of us are in our 50s to darn near 80 or more. We’ve been around the block a time or 2. Let us know what you decide.

 

[tglizzo]

I'm happy and fine with the advice lol some were just jumping to conclusions about what I was going to do. Again I'm all for taking advice but not really when words are being put in my mouth and twisting what I said. I hear everyone on the sprocket. 40 is probably too small but it's not like I'm just throwing the 60 in the garbage. Was considering a 50T to try and meet in the middle. Taller tires is a good idea I was already considering it. Everything I laid out was just ideas I had not what I was going to do asap. I still figure cutting off the back bumper would save a little weight on the rear. That's the heaviest part without the motor. Initially it came with a belt drive sprocket which I still have but I read that those can slip and be unreliable so I was gonna stick with a chain drive. If I get the opportunity to trade it on marketplace for something better I probably will, just not the motor tho

 

[Master Hack]

Looks like we gonna have to sic the RAT on ya!
He always has a subtle way of helping you understand the techniques involved in successful Kart building!

 

[tglizzo]

Looks like we gonna have to sic the RAT on ya!
He always has a subtle way of helping you understand the techniques involved in successful Kart building!

It's all good. I'll update once I get my parts today since they didn't come yesterday. I'm ok with trial and error

 

[Rat]

I've been over this thread... I see a bit of ignorance from all sides.

1. That frame is built of C-channel steel, so it's like trying to turn a fullsize pickup frame into a kart. Just not a great plan without the v8 and it won't be much fun either

2. It WAS belt driven which is surprising to me. Belt drives ratio a bit different than chain drive but the principles are the same. Belt drive effective diameter is to a degree equal to the diameter between teeth on a sprocket. For example, I know that a 1/2 pitch 36t is roughly 6.25" at the valley with a working diameter closer to 7, ergo it is roughly the same as running a 6" belt pulley

3. Based on the belt pulley position relative to the engine mount it no doubt had a reduction cover engine. The only way to duplicate that is with a jackshaft set up (unless you want to restore or overpay for a tired Briggs L-head) and by the looks of it you'll need to add a jackshaft just to line up the drivetrain anyway

4. The only safe way to reduce some weight will be time consuming and have a limited effect... bore large holes through it. Problem being you'll be throwing some structural integrity away at the same time.

Overall it's just not worth the effort to do it any way other than how it was designed.

Is it a POS? No it's just heavy as all hell and will absolutely not serve your purposes worth a damn. My take is it was designed to take a beating from all sides without any concern of weight penalty on speed or agility.

 

[Denny]

That was a concession kart. Made to run 18 hours a day with little down time or maintenance. It had a Honda engine with an internal 2:1 reduction and internal wet clutch. Plus a further 6:1 reduction from the drive pulley driven pulley. They usually only ran 20 mph tops.

 

[panchothedog]

If you're staying with that frame, then a 50 tooth sprocket will be a lot better than the 40. I don't know what size your output shaft is. 3/4" or 1". Some might not agree, but I would recommend you get a 30 series torque converter. It can be found with a 1" drive clutch ( if that's what you have) . I say this because you can get a 8 tooth drive sprocket for the 30 series units. An 8 driving a 50 will be as good as a 10 driving 60, which is the gold standard for gear ratios. Maybe to you its not a POS. I ment that more in expected results. You have a good engine. Cut off of it what you want. It will still be an over weight tank that was built to withstand numerous slow speed crashes. Not my ( and probably others ) idea of fun. If I were you I certainly would not invest in new ( larger tires ) or a 40 series torque converter. A 30 cost about 1/3 rd the money of a 40. Even if you threw the frame away, you have a nice engine for $95.

 

[Rat]

If you're staying with that frame, then a 50 tooth sprocket will be a lot better than the 40. I don't know what size your output shaft is. 3/4" or 1".

GX270 has a 1" PTO

Some might not agree, but I would recommend you get a 30 series torque converter. It can be found with a 1" drive clutch ( if that's what you have) . I say this because you can get a 8 tooth drive sprocket for the 30 series units. An 8 driving a 50 will be as good as a 10 driving 60, which is the gold standard for gear ratios.

I've heard those 8's like to shear apart because the bore hub wall is so thin to even make them. I personally refuse to use or recommend smaller than a 9t.
Supposedly the lack of "overdrive" in a 40 series using a symetric belt is better than a 30 series concerning larger engines. I can vouche personally for the fact that a 30 series will drag the roms back down after a certain point... I spin mine up to 6500 pretty regularly only to have it consistently pull down to the 4800-5200 range

Even if you threw the frame away, you have a nice engine for $95.

Yeah no doubt, the GX270 runs around 600 or so new so scrapping the frame as short steel one definitely still comes out ahead even if they dump another 400 into snatching a really nice chassis