Belt Engages, Motor Shakes Violently!!

malenurse13

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We've had an old hand-me-down go kart for years. Put a new predator 212 on it a few weeks ago. We have worked thru a few of the normal issues after an engine swap. We bought some new belts and it ran great for a few hours... But now when we accelerate from a stopped poaition, the engine shakes all over the place as the belt tries to engage.


Any idea what would cause the clutch to grab so aggressively like that??
 

malenurse13

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We did have a lot of rust, tarnish, and burnt rubber on both sides of the front clutch pulley (sheaves). I haven't done anything with the inside of the CVT, but I did polish with a wire brush both sides of that front clutch pulley. I also moved the motor a little to make sure both belt pulleys are perfectly aligned. Then I tried a new belt. None of that helped. In fact, when I took it for a ride, it got to where the clutch wouldn't even come out enough to grab the belt. RPM would go up, CVT came out a little, but wouldn't grab. I'll have to make sure the CVT is doing what it's supposed to. But here's my question(s) ... should I clean/polish the rear pulley as well? When it comes to getting moving, does the rear pulley do anything? Or does the rear pulley only move at higher speed?
 

malenurse13

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I'm assuming something is wrong that's causing burnt rubber on the inside of the pulleys. But the pulleys are perfectly lined up. I can't find any resistance or bearing problems with any other moving parts.
 

Whitetrashrocker

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Is it a 30 or 40 series converter?

Here's a good video I randomly pulled of a 30 series. It shows how both sides move in relation to each other. Notice the tension of the belt.

It sounds like you have one side not moving easily.

 

Denny

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Also you must use a Genuine Comet belt!!! The cheap yack grease and hair belts will make a CVT shift poorly or not at all. Go through both clutches and clean them up and lube them with spray or dry graphite only! No oil!!!
 

Rat

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Any hard shuddering I've ever had under load was caused exclusively by 2 very specific things.

1. Cheap belt stretched beyond tolerance

2. Said belt was slipping under load when it should have been fully locked and engaged

I'm assuming something is wrong that's causing burnt rubber on the inside of the pulleys. But the pulleys are perfectly lined up. I can't find any resistance or bearing problems with any other moving parts.
Stop using belts made rings of sun dried water buffalo scrotum... the burnt transfer on the sheaves is specific to belt slippage.

What you spend on a single Genuine Comet belt, you will save in repeatedly replacing trashed inferior belts. By repeatedly I mean a single Comet belt (35 bucks on avg) will out last ANY other generic belt by leaps and bounds.

The one and only belt I have found that comes close to the same quality and strength of a Comet belt(still falling short) are the AIP Kevlar belts but the price difference says they are only worth using if you can't find a Comet belt at all.
 

Rat

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Also you must use a Genuine Comet belt!!! The cheap yack grease and hair belts will make a CVT shift poorly or not at all. Go through both clutches and clean them up and lube them with spray or dry graphite only! No oil!!!
Perhaps ironically proper maintenence, or even maintenence at all is less critical than using a Genuine Comet Belt.

Its no secret 'round here that I am notorious for doing what "can't be done" or at least pushing the envelope to try as well as doing what should definitely not be done.

The older of my two CVT's hasn't seen graphite dry lube since the first time I cleaned it. It has had nothing but high temp lithium brake disc brake caliper grease put in every time it has been cleaned since... no excessive wear, not excessive heat generated, no loss of lubrication onto the belt (buttered conservatively, never globbed) and it works as well as it did new full of graphite.

That said it is my experienced observation that a heavy non-petroleum no fling lubricant OTHER than graphite can in fact be a safe and reliable substitute.
 

malenurse13

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That video is very informative! Thank you for all the info! Our belt definitely isn't moving like that. We've got some work to do. Is there a good video out there showing how to clean and where exactly to lube?
 

malenurse13

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Even with me!

No adjustments. That's why I'm assuming it's got something to do with the belt or clutch. Nothing else seems like it could deteriorate that fast..
 

Rat

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Even with me!

No adjustments. That's why I'm assuming it's got something to do with the belt or clutch. Nothing else seems like it could deteriorate that fast..
Youre lucky if junk belts get you more than 5mi before they go to crap.

If you are using a bigger/stronger engine than you're putting more torque load through the driveline, thus stretching the belts faster.
 

malenurse13

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We took off the stock Tecumseh 6.5hp motor and replaced it with a new Predator 6.5hp motor. We're trying to get it to run as stock as possible. All we did was swap the motor. Should be the same power?
The belts are cheap (amazon), the belt pulleys are rusty and filthy. And I'm sure we've got some extra resistance somewhere. I'll see if cleaning and lubricating (conservatively) helps engage the belt smoother. And we'll buy some better belts next time. 😉
 

Rat

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We took off the stock Tecumseh 6.5hp motor and replaced it with a new Predator 6.5hp motor.
Tecumseh 🤣🤣 that 6.5 is more like 4.5.
We're trying to get it to run as stock as possible. All we did was swap the motor. Should be the same power?
A tired worn out engine, versus new... there's the fly in your soup. The Tecumseh "6.5" is optimistically over rated to say the least.
The belts are cheap (amazon), the belt pulleys are rusty and filthy. And I'm sure we've got some extra resistance somewhere.
Rusty crusty sheaves won't cause the violent shuddering, but they will eat up belts. Even good belts won't last.
I'll see if cleaning and lubricating (conservatively) helps engage the belt smoother. And we'll buy some better belts next time. 😉
If you're going to try salvaging the old TC, I recomend you get some fine grit paper (800 will do) and some paint stir sticks. Wrap the paper around and tack it in place, run the engine at idle without a belt and use the stick to take the surface down smooth and shiny again.

After that put the kart on jackstands, pop a junk belt on it, turn the rpm up on the idle screw until the secondary turns steady but isn't sucking the belt down and repeat the sanding process by carefully reaching into the sheave between the top and bottom belt spans with the sanding sticks.

You won't be able to do the rear driven sheave this way, but 3 surfaces out if 4 this way saves a lot of time and energy.
Actually You could do the rear sheave on the secondary this way with the belt off if some volunteers spin the rear tires manually for you while you sand it though.

Unless it's a genuine Comet 30 unit, it seems to me it's in your karts best interest to just buy a genuine comet belt and a new TC instead of continuing to fuss with it. The sanding will only save it if the sheaves are surface rusted because any galling or rust pitting is still going to eat up a belt no matter how shiny you get it and you don't want to take off anything more than absolutely necessary forbthe sake of weakening the sheaves or eroding them past their tolerance for grabbing the belt efficiently.

It occurred to me that another thing that can cause the violent shudder is if the driven spring is weak or adjusted too soft, with all the rust mentioned I'm betting gone soft. What ends up happening is the primary yanks the belt through the secondary but without enough spring resistance it basically tried to take the belt all the way to the spindle which won't move the kart from a dead stop IF it bites... it still goes back to my first comment regarding belt slippage in any case.

The ONE AND ONLY thing I've ever had make a TC shudder like the whole machine was comming apart is the belt slipping. No IF's, And's, but's, or maybe's about it what-so-ever
 

malenurse13

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I want to thank y'all for the posted videos and all the great advice! Me and the kids took a few hours this weekend, disassembled every part of the torque converter, used lacquer thinner and wire brush on every part, and most importantly, made sure the spring on the rear pulley was properly loaded (it wasnt before). We also had one new belt we hadn't used yet. And now it runs GREAT!

 

Denny

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That’s how you build memories with the kids! Glad we could help. Now stick around and help others and join in the fun!
 
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