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Old 02-17-2018, 11:22 PM
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Default Moving slowly forward

After many months of research and several brief moments of revelations, I've come to the conclusion that I'm gonna have to build it myself and learn/buy/build as I go. The kart (?) I intend to create will be used off road on a primarily flat sand beach with a wide variety of traction capabilities with occasional asphalt assaults on an attaching deserted road...with a completion goal of 7/4/20 or sooner...money being the primary obstacle. So plenty of research/planning development to follow. But I am to a point for some input, based on my latest direction.

So assumed the overall goal is a 0 to 60 mph in less than 5 seconds (4.7 to be exact) with the front wheels up at the start and back tires spinning to maintain RPM. Just like this...



The engine will be in back...similar to a rear engine dragster design only with a funny car chassis style, eventually to be 80 percent covered in a custom glass body. I have plenty of "track" to break 100 mph and according to my SWAG power to weight ratios and somewhat adjustable weight distribution and with proper manual gearing (torque), all of this could/should happen with something like 10 pounds per HP or
1600lbs/160hp
800/80
400/40 Probably a little on the heavy side but should put me in the ballpark.

Anyways, I have to consider suited up I'll weigh 225 pounds and 6"3 in a helmet. A mix of one inch square/rectangular tube chassis is about a pound per foot and @40'= 40 pounds minimum. Now add steering (30 pounds? rack/pinion?), single rear disc brake, seat with 5 point harness, rear mono wing, narrow/wide tires mounted on alum rims...so another 225 pounds. Now add (I'm trying to stay away from water cooled for now)...a reliable engine/drive train. Three are in the lead and are ATV, pit, 200 Lifan (or similar) with a manual trans or even a motorcycle engine (which are plentiful around here and cheap enough). Never worked on two of the three so there is that. So another 225 #'s for eng/drivetrain sound reasonable? I understand for what I want, which is really a drag car experience, it will likely need to be no more than 750 pounds with me on board/ready to run with the appropriate 80-120 hp engine/man trans.

Below are pics of the frame I want, in the design I want, with the body along with the launch I want (only body narrowed to almost the hood bump...the intake being where my helmet would be...Photoshop help there maybe too as beyond me for now)

How would you do it? Frame kit and adapt? Does wall thickness that is available vary enough to matter? Buy the engine first and build from there? Build frame and adapt to the engine? One inch box/rectangular tubing...strong enough for no suspension and 6 to 8 inch ground clearance? Logical to use square/rectangle tubing so it can be fabbed in easily and welded in permanently? Seems to be the right approach. Latest idea is get the frame to scale on graph paper then recreate it in a PVC mock up. PVC is cheap and I have a lot of it laying around in 3/4 to inch and a half.

Ironically, the kind of build I'm thinking of doing is popping up left and right on Youtube and Velocity, so looking forward to it all but also don't want to waste time waiting for directions I may or may not need to go. Many of you have already helped steer me to where I am today and all input is genuinely appreciated. (sorry so long...never let the speed demon back out)

Patience is never mastered, only practiced.
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  #2  
Old 02-18-2018, 04:29 AM
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Sooo...trying to process what you want. An off-road funny car in kart form? WITHOUT suspension. Hmmmm... Check Craigslist, they have them on there all the time.


You're going to have to lean one way or another.

Actually, flat sand just means big tires with aggressive tread, while fast on asphalt means wide soft tires with good traction and max surface contact to get to that 0-60 time.
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Old 02-18-2018, 06:13 AM
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love that kart..
PU micosupsension... (basically just vibration dampers)
amazing..
here's some more pics..

unfortunately not as trivial of a chassis (certainly nothing you could copy at home with basic tools that is )

but that's the ONLY motorcycle (sorry 'serious motorcycle')
powered kart I'd be wanting to drive. [wanting to HAVE ]

'sid
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Old 02-18-2018, 10:20 AM
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Thanks Sid. I think I have all of those kart pics, even the steering wheel! I've looked at a lot of frames but whoa, that one keeps coming back up to the top. " PU micosupsension... (basically just vibration dampers)". Yeah, was wondering about that...and thinking it might be a good thing to keep.

---------- Post added at 08:20 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:09 AM ----------

Here's the frame in second place...

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/vi...c.php?t=645507

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nosandwich View Post
Sooo...trying to process what you want. An off-road funny car in kart form? WITHOUT suspension. Hmmmm... Check Craigslist, they have them on there all the time.


You're going to have to lean one way or another.

Actually, flat sand just means big tires with aggressive tread, while fast on asphalt means wide soft tires with good traction and max surface contact to get to that 0-60 time.
Tires like these maybe? https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01M0AGBN9...61JKF9S5&psc=1

or a 40 pound(!) short case elec start engine/4 speed like this?
https://www.amazon.com/ZXTDR-Engine-...VEHNY7YQNG6MV6
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Old 02-18-2018, 11:01 AM
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Those tires would probably work pretty well.

Couldn't tell you about the engine. HOW YOU get fast is not my department.

If you look at that kart, it's basically set up like a back half drag car with a four link.
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  #6  
Old 02-19-2018, 07:36 AM
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I am confused, 150cc does not equal "80-120 hp engine/man trans".
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Old 02-19-2018, 10:10 AM
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200 cc Lifan Max. HP: 16.0 HP @ 8,500 rpm 11.0708 ft lbs @ 7,000 rpm

You are correct but the numbers were just a breakdown of power to weight ratios showing 10 lbs to 1HP).
A larger motor from an ATV or Motorcycle would get there, but I should probably start out with the lifan.
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Old 02-19-2018, 01:03 PM
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That LiFan is wayy overpriced... Also it would probably max out around 65 MPH, I'd start with the motorcycle engine so that the dimensions of the kart can be tailored around it; can't wait to see this build m8!

BTW that suspension idea is perfect for street, kinda thinking my car could benefit from it lolol
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  #9  
Old 02-19-2018, 02:59 PM
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I've got this year and next for something to come up that's perfect.
Maybe a Lifan (or an off brand) OR an ATV (not really ready mentally to consider snow machines now) or most likely and currently, a motorcycle engine/trans.

But I must have that chassis!!!
So now I'm thinking just get measurements and start on the dam thing and make the engine area large enough to fit...say a 600 cc? We already have a long established steel and welding shop here in town and a much much larger one in Medford. All I need is to show the guy what I want, give him the measurements and Violla...it becomes a kit car! Then just decide on/buy a mig/arc welder and some tools...conjure up 43 year old arc welding class experience, practice a bit and start tacking.

Then if you look at the pic of the existing chassis...the end of it does resemble a 4 link suspension which is added to the previously built chassis...sooo easily added to the end of the frame. And likely ajustable so better to have then have not.

So focus on stage one, being mostly from the back of the seat forward. And...now I am now thinking the front suspension (with a race shock setting of 90/10) is even mandatory. (That's 90 percent resistance coming down with 10% resisting going up). Perfect for weight transfer and protection of the front end when it comes back down. Yeah...all this helps me a LOT! Thank you!

Already got some cool ideas for it too...


Build table: One sheet plywood; 4x8x1/2" on 2 saw horses...leveled.
A combined kool can that chills both the incoming air and fuel at the same time. (Already @ sea level)
A manual choke coverted to an exhaust cut-out to bypass the muffler for racing.
A pair of fully adjustable bladed skis used as wheelie bars and directional control.
A drag chute for if I go too fast for too long...or if I start heading for the ocean.
A custom fiberglass body based on a Superbird starting out with hardware cloth used as a mold.
NOS...hooked up to a manually adjustable air control valve from an aquarium.
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Old 02-19-2018, 03:20 PM
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SHAKE SHAKE SHAKE....WAKE UP, you were dreaming there.
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Old 02-19-2018, 03:29 PM
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Male menopause maybe? IDK...kinda new @ being the old guy drinking coffee is me now?

Naw...it was that dam wheels up Dodge Demon commercial. Haven't been the same since.
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