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Old 04-13-2018, 07:58 AM
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Default Predator 212 Stage 1 Kit Question

I'm going to be buying a Predator 212 (Hemi ver.) soon, and I wanted to modify it with a Stage 1 kit from the GoPowerSports site. I'm just wondering if anyone here has any experience with a Stage 1 Predator 212. Anybody know how much of an increase in power to expect from the stock 6.5HP WITHOUT taking off the governor? Normally I'd remove the governor, but if I did that then I'd need a new flywheel, connecting rod, cam, springs, etc, which all costs around $260. I plan on putting this motor on a Manco Dingo with a full roll cage.

Thanks.
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Last edited by SquidBonez; 04-13-2018 at 08:06 AM. Reason: Added some extra info
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Old 04-13-2018, 09:00 AM
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Pull the governor and send it.

5200, 5300 max RPM with stock springs.
Rod and Flywheel will PROBABLY be fine.
Lots of engines run like that with no rod or flywheel failures.

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Old 04-13-2018, 12:54 PM
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You sure about that? I've always heard you need to have aftermarket parts after governor removal or you'll ruin the springs or turn the flywheel into a bomb or whatever horror story you choose. I just want to be careful since I don't feel like having to replace the entire engine after my first time out using it.

Here's a video of some kid's 212 that got ruined after governor removal because he left it stock:

I don't want to repeat his mistake.
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Old 04-13-2018, 01:36 PM
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The stock flywheel and rod USUALLY can withstand 5000 rpm. That being said, if you've got the kart geared in a manner where you can hold it at that for extended periods, good luck keeping the valve train healthy if they are floating all the time. Additionally I'm not sure anyone can guarantee safety after pulling the governor, although I have done so on half a dozen or more predators without problem.
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Old 04-13-2018, 01:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SquidBonez View Post
Here's a video of some kid's 212 that got ruined after governor removal because he left it stock:

I don't want to repeat his mistake.

Well everything has it's limit. You can take the advice of "some kid" or a professional Hemi engine builder like Bob.
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Old 04-13-2018, 02:03 PM
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I know, I know. I just want to be careful. I'm new to this hobby and I'm operating on a very limited budget. Never hurts to make sure. Thanks for the responses!
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Old 04-13-2018, 02:47 PM
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Well If you don't want to upgrade the rod, I don't want to tell you how to make more power.
You want a modified engine, but don't want performance parts... and you want it to last.

No price for piece of mind, so if you are leaving the stock rod, I'd just do the air filter and exhaust. If you are going to be nervous every time you rev the engine, then don't pull the governor.

Thinner head gasket will help a bit without removing the governor.
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Old 04-13-2018, 03:10 PM
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Stage one kit. Governor intact. From 2013.
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Old 04-13-2018, 03:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randy H View Post
Stage one kit. Governor intact. From 2013.
Question is which is more dangerous????
Gokarting or Football?
The state of Texas should have fun with that question on a Friday night. LOL

---------- Post added at 04:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:21 PM ----------

Box Stock Engines require a stock connecting rod right?
And allow governor removal right?

I'm going to try to count the times he lets off the accelerator.


---------- Post added at 04:56 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:41 PM ----------

BTW, since it is a 212cc on a Dingo with (assuming) 18" Tires you should be using a Torque Converter.

If a 30 series with 6" Driven pulley, it will have a 10% overdrive.

If you gear the kart 6:1 with a TC, in overdrive it will be 5.4 :1.

5000 RPM
5.4 :1 Gear Ratio
18" Tires
50 MPH.

I doubt you will reach 50 MPH with that engine and kart.
Maybe around 40MPH. With that gearing 40 MPH would be 4000 RPM.

Send It.
And if you happen to reach 50 mph going downhill, don't keep it floored there. The valves might float and that isn't great either.

Or keep the governor, TC, and 6: 1 gear ratio to reach top speed of 36 MPH.

Or keep the governor and TC, switch the gear ratio to 7.5: 1, and reach top speed of 28 MPH.
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Old 04-13-2018, 04:18 PM
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A couple of things with that video. Even though there is no govenor debris in the video, he could have just bypassed it and removed the evidence after the fact.

Also, we don't know what springs he was running. For all we know, could have been 22 lbs.
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Old 04-13-2018, 04:58 PM
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Not sure about danger issues. I hurt my ankle in a football game in '83. It bothered me till I snapped it off in a motorcycle crash in '92. Fused and screwed together now. Even held up when another driver made a left turn in front of me at 50 MPH or so.

Flipped lengthwise, landed upside down on the top. When I regained consciousness, I thought I was ok. Leg felt strange, reached down and felt my femur sticking out. That's an odd feeling. It explained why i was going for a helicopter ride. But my ankle was just fine.

Sorry, enough reminiscing.

Being a good samaritan I replaced the original parts on tha blown Predator and took it back to Harbor Freight, assuming they would want to know about a potential quality control issue. No one cared.

I didn't put the performance springs on that replacenent. I won't without a billet rod. It's still fun, especially for the grandkids, but I got hooked on bigblocks.
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Old 04-13-2018, 04:59 PM
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Alright, I'll send it then. Thanks.
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Old 04-15-2018, 07:14 PM
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Having attended a quality seminar by W. Edwards Deming (he taught the Japanese how to do quality after WWII), his best quote was "you must understand variation".

The Chinese are climbing up the quality ladder, and variation is why some of these engines last and some don't.
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Old 04-16-2018, 10:28 AM
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Here are the rules for upgrading a Predator. Keep your Reciepts. Don't upgrade springs without upgrading rod. The OVERWHELMING amount of people that follow that have no problem. Keep the stock parts. IF something happens, re-install the stock parts and take it back to HF for an exchange.

---------- Post added at 11:28 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:15 AM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Randy H View Post
Stage one kit. Governor intact. From 2013.
I call B.S.. One has nothing to do with the other. I suspect govenor linkage BYPASSING. If the govenor was operating property, ( which I HIGHLY doubt), it would turn the same rpms and I doubt the small increase in load with the stage one kit. If so,then it would have failed without it.

How about this: disabling the low oil sensor doesn't mean you don't have to maintain the oil level?
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Old 04-16-2018, 12:17 PM
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The box stock project engine would make more power and cost the same. I would be willing to bet it makes more power actually. And they are already assembled.
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Old 04-16-2018, 02:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nosandwich View Post

I call B.S.. One has nothing to do with the other. I suspect govenor linkage BYPASSING. If the govenor was operating property, ( which I HIGHLY doubt), it would turn the same rpms and I doubt the small increase in load with the stage one kit. If so,then it would have failed without it.
I suspect that even an unmodified engine can break a rod. I've heard stories of the stock rod's bolts backing out. Perhaps stage 1 mods could accelerate the failure. Or side cover bolts backing out, which results in oil loss, block flexing, and ultimately some type of failure.

I think the moral of the story is ....
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Old 04-16-2018, 10:04 PM
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As when installing an aftermarket rod, it is probably good to check oil clearance between the crankshaft journal and the connecting rod. I know ~0.003" is good for an ARC rod. I don't know what is good for a stock connecting rod. I think Jody has a video.

I asked about clone classes that use stock rods with no governor or governor modification.
Some say they never broke one.
Some say they seen a few break at heir track over the the past few years.
Some say theirs have lasted an entire season at over 6k RPM.

56:00 into the video
0.003" Oil Clearance with stock rod as well.
Aslo need to check rod and crankshaft for roundness.
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