• OFF TOPIC fun forum - NO politics - NO religion - NO jerks. It's not complicated. Thanks!

Veterans Day 2012

Status
Not open for further replies.

augidog

New member
Messages
329
Reaction score
0
If you know a Veteran, or anyone on Active Duty, or a Military Family...

Today would be a good day to reach out to them, and to say "Thank You for Your Service."
 

FatCat

2 stroke Addict!
Messages
459
Reaction score
0
Location
Ottawa, IL

FatCat

2 stroke Addict!
Messages
459
Reaction score
0
Location
Ottawa, IL
Looking up and seeing the business end of these guys coming at you has got to be the worst feeling in the world!
 

augidog

New member
Messages
329
Reaction score
0
IMG-20121111-00020.jpg
as true today as it ever was.

President Lincoln was known as a man of few words, but i do not think he would mind if i added a qualifier:

"A nation that does not (properly) honor it's heroes, will not long endure."
 

devino246

Official DIYGK Chem Nerd
Messages
3,856
Reaction score
3
Location
Lynchburg, VA
Flying into combat in one of those fighters take a certain kind of courage, but it's noting compared to the 18/19/20 year olds risking life and limb in the tin cans known as B24's and B17's. I had the oportunity to ride in a B24 a few years back. It was quite the experience. I`ve got a few pics I'll post after work.
 

augidog

New member
Messages
329
Reaction score
0
yes, the people...
...the 18/19/20 year olds risking life and limb...
who have Served, and who are Serving, Freedom...on the land, in the air, on the seas.

IMG-20121111-00023.jpg

IMG-20121111-00017.jpg

that's what Remembrance Day (and this thread) is about.
 

Doc Sprocket

*********
Messages
15,677
Reaction score
6
Location
Ontario, Canada
You got it. And I gotta say, there were some problems here directly relating to Remembrance Day here that got my blood to boiling!

One- We all know the poppy as a symbol for those who have fought and died. Here, we wear a red poppy on our lapel as a tribute. We buy these poppies out of little boxes placed in convenience stores, coffee shops, etc. The box has a little slot you can put coins in. There is no "price", it's donation-based. Give what you want, take a poppy. I have no idea if it's like that in the states.

I buy 8-12 poppies a year. The donations are collected for the veteran's association, so when I have some loose change (maybe $0.25-$2.00), I just buy another and pin it to my shirt/sweat/jacket/whatever.

For the second consecutive year, some little :censored: stole 3 or 4 poppy donation boxes from locations in the Toronto area. Can you believe it? Some little :censored:ing piece of :censored: punk stealing from the veterans? Are you for real? F:censored: you! I could only wish I could get my hands around your neck! It boggles the mind!:furious2:

Two: Some other :censored::censored::censored: defaced a Toronto war memorial with the words, "Canada will burn, allah be praised". F:censored: You! Do you realize that the very freedom you are currently enjoying was afforded you by the dead you have just degraded? Get the flying F:censored: out of my country, you ungrateful sack of :censored:! I'd love like hell to round you up, put you in a plane, and "Operation Dumbo Drop" your sorry, flea-bitten @ss over what ever backwater, sand-riddled, heat-baked, scorpion-infested, bass-ackward, third-world-chunk-o-camel-:censored:-country you came from!

Rant done. Feel a little better, not much. Clearly, folks have had it too easy for too long, and have forgotten all about the hardship and sacrifice endured and given in exchange for this easy life.
 

devino246

Official DIYGK Chem Nerd
Messages
3,856
Reaction score
3
Location
Lynchburg, VA
You got it. And I gotta say, there were some problems here directly relating to Remembrance Day here that got my blood to boiling!

One- We all know the poppy as a symbol for those who have fought and died. Here, we wear a red poppy on our lapel as a tribute. We buy these poppies out of little boxes placed in convenience stores, coffee shops, etc. The box has a little slot you can put coins in. There is no "price", it's donation-based. Give what you want, take a poppy. I have no idea if it's like that in the states.

I buy 8-12 poppies a year. The donations are collected for the veteran's association, so when I have some loose change (maybe $0.25-$2.00), I just buy another and pin it to my shirt/sweat/jacket/whatever.

For the second consecutive year, some little :censored: stole 3 or 4 poppy donation boxes from locations in the Toronto area. Can you believe it? Some little :censored:ing piece of :censored: punk stealing from the veterans? Are you for real? F:censored: you! I could only wish I could get my hands around your neck! It boggles the mind!:furious2:

Two: Some other :censored::censored::censored: defaced a Toronto war memorial with the words, "Canada will burn, allah be praised". F:censored: You! Do you realize that the very freedom you are currently enjoying was afforded you by the dead you have just degraded? Get the flying F:censored: out of my country, you ungrateful sack of :censored:! I'd love like hell to round you up, put you in a plane, and "Operation Dumbo Drop" your sorry, flea-bitten @ss over what ever backwater, sand-riddled, heat-baked, scorpion-infested, bass-ackward, third-world-chunk-o-camel-:censored:-country you came from!

Rant done. Feel a little better, not much. Clearly, folks have had it too easy for too long, and have forgotten all about the hardship and sacrifice endured and given in exchange for this easy life.

"Every third generation forgets."
 

Attachments

  • 46063_1461540376709_6109915_n.jpg
    46063_1461540376709_6109915_n.jpg
    36.5 KB · Views: 8
  • 40246_1461541096727_2331985_n.jpg
    40246_1461541096727_2331985_n.jpg
    33.8 KB · Views: 7
  • 40246_1461541216730_3968788_n.jpg
    40246_1461541216730_3968788_n.jpg
    40.2 KB · Views: 8
  • 45495_1461541696742_8059613_n.jpg
    45495_1461541696742_8059613_n.jpg
    38.9 KB · Views: 9

B.M.800

TheBeal.
Messages
2,384
Reaction score
1
Location
Central PA
Both grandfathers(one was one of the first to know about ww2 victory, I though that was cool.), a couple uncles and cousins have served in the military.

@ Toystory:
Thats sucks. People like that as Garfield would say "drug out into the street and shot".

@Devino:
Thats awesome. Id love to look one of them things over... maybe not fly in one. Not a fan of heights here lol.
 

devino246

Official DIYGK Chem Nerd
Messages
3,856
Reaction score
3
Location
Lynchburg, VA
You got to ride in that? You lucky guy- I'd love to! What were the circumstances?

Both grandfathers(one was one of the first to know about ww2 victory, I though that was cool.), a couple uncles and cousins have served in the military.

@Devino:
Thats awesome. Id love to look one of them things over... maybe not fly in one. Not a fan of heights here lol.

Backstory:

Grandpa was drafted into the Air Core when he was 18. Sent to boot camp and shipped over seas. Flew as a flight engineer with the 449th Bomb Group (H), based out of Grottaglie, Italy. Primarily bombed oil fields, air fields, and related infrastructure. Was shot down on Friday the 13th, 1944. The plane's pilot, my grandpa's best friend, was the last one aboard the plane, and was deemed MIA. So a 19 year old who couldn't swim, was floating in the middle of the Adriatic after being forced to bail out of his plane and losing his best friend. I can't even begin to imagine.

The 449th Bomb Group Association was formed in the early 80's, and the group has had reunions every 18 months since. I attended my first back in 2008, and intend to go to every one in the future. I actually created and maintain the Association's website.

Anyway, the Collins Foundation bought this B24J and flies it around the country, selling ground-tours and rides. It stopped in Lexington, NC a few years ago, so my aunt decided to pay the (enormous) fee to let my mom, grandma, and I fly in it. It's the only operating B24J left.

The best way to describe it really is a "tin can". It's not sealed, it's not insulated. There is no safety equipment. The "catwalk", as you saw in the third picture above, is no more than a foot wide and is 8-10 feet long. Bombs would have been loaded on either side of it. There was no railing, no safety net, and nothing to hold on to. If you fell and the bomb doors were open, you fell to your death. If you fell and the bomb doors were closed, you likely broke through the flimsy doors and fell to your death. The Flight Engineer would have walked across that catwalk dozens of times each flight. It's bad enough walking across when you're on the ground, just imagine when you hit turbulence and the enemy is firing flak at you. If those guys weren't brave, I don't know what bravery is.
 

devino246

Official DIYGK Chem Nerd
Messages
3,856
Reaction score
3
Location
Lynchburg, VA
I'll explain these pictures a little further since y'all seem interested.

This is the ball turret:

It sat towards the center of the plane, closer to the tail. The smallest crew member was always chosen to man the turret, because it's very small. The ball was hydraulically driven. It would be raised to the point that you see it in the picture, the hatch (with the X stamped into it) opened, and the gunner would climb inside. 3/4 of the ball was plexiglass. The gunner would sit in the fetal position, and the ball would be lowered down. If the #2 engine went out, all hydraulics were lost; in this case, another crew member would have to crank the turret up by hand.

Because the ball turret was so small, the crew member manning it couldn't wear his parachute while inside it. There was a set of shoulder straps that were worn in case the plexiglass ball were to break. The straps were uncomfortable, though, so the gunners often wouldn't wear them, leading to the deaths of many gunners.


This is the bomb bay:

Bombs would be hung on either side of the catwalk you see in the middle. This picture was taken looking towards the back of the plane. As I mentioned, there was no railing to hold onto when walking through the bomb bay. There are various cables running nearby, however, those cables connected the pilot's controls to the control surfaces of the plane. If you grabbed onto the cables in flight, you risked throwing the plane off course, causing it to hit another plane.

The catwalk was the only link from the front of the plane to the rear. Walking forward on it, you could step up onto the flight deck, or crouch down and crawl around the front landing gear in order to get to the Bombardier's sight and the nose turret. When the landing gear was lowered, high winds blew from the unsealed front landing gear opening. Stepping up onto the flight deck, looking straight ahead, were the pilots. Directly behind them was where the flight engineer sat. There were several gauge panels that he managed throughout the flight. Looking upwards, there was a turret built into the top of the plane. On many planes, during combat, the flight engineer would man this turret.

Walking rearward on the catwalk, you would step up to gain access to the rear section of the plane. This was where the waist gunners, ball turret, and tail gunner were. Waist gunners manned 50cal guns on either side of the plane. Large (approx. 3'x3') openings in the side of the plane allowed the waist gunners to maneuver their weapons. The ball turret was built into the floor, slightly forward of the tail gunners' positions. Walking to the end of the tail was the tail gunner's position. The tail gunner probably felt the second most secluded, after the ball turret gunner.


I'd quit my job if I were denied time off to go to the next Bomb Group reunion. It takes skill and some courage to fly a modern plane into combat, but it took major cojones, a love for one's country, and a little something more to fly the B24 Liberator "Flying Fortress" into combat. It scares the living $hit out of me just thinking about doing something like that at my age, or any age for that matter. It saddens me that many of their stories are lost forever as WWII veterans pass away. Their generation has been called the "greatest generation", and quite frankly, I'm inclined to believe it.
 

Attachments

  • headstone_image_id_127347_front.jpg
    headstone_image_id_127347_front.jpg
    143.7 KB · Views: 4

B.M.800

TheBeal.
Messages
2,384
Reaction score
1
Location
Central PA
If those guys weren't brave, I don't know what bravery is.
Amen there! Part of me would love to hear some of these peoples stories... Then again, I would imagine it would be hard for some, like your grandfather losing a best friend( I cant even begin to imagine what these people went through)... then part wants to leave it at that, out of respect... seems like that might almost be like asking "did you kill people?" I think that would be a very personal thing... I surly wouldnt want to talk about something like that... But maybe thats what people need to hear to know how good we have it? I dunno man.

Its amazing what these people have gone through (past/present/future), something many people do not understand the sacrifice that was made. Then you got these friggen :poop: like TS4wd said about...

My grandfather was on a few battleships as th radio guy. The New Jersey is one I believe. Thats about all I know. Would be cool if there was some sort of website that you could look up and see what your family members were in the military and what all they did...
 

augidog

New member
Messages
329
Reaction score
0
Memorial Day (in May) is a day to Honor the Fallen, Armistice Day (in November) is a day for Honoring the Living as well.

the simple premise behind Veterans Day (or Remembrance Day in a lot of the Free World) is that at least once a year we get outside of ourselves, and we directly thank a special group of people who defend our right to be so into ourselves the rest of the year.

Free World Veterans & Active Duty don't compare themselves to one another on this day, but instead stand together and celebrate the single bond that makes them as a group a cut above the rest.

again, to ALL Defenders of Freedom & Liberty...past present and future...i say "Thank You for Your Service."

(you may cut and paste that if you don't know how to just say "thank you all" for yourself...but if you don't know why simply saying "thank you all" on their day is important, well, sorry, i can't help you with that part)
 

Attachments

  • IMG-20121111-00018.jpg
    IMG-20121111-00018.jpg
    55.3 KB · Views: 5

devino246

Official DIYGK Chem Nerd
Messages
3,856
Reaction score
3
Location
Lynchburg, VA
Memorial Day (in May) is a day to Honor the Fallen, Armistice Day (in November) is a day for Honoring the Living as well.

the simple premise behind Veterans Day (or Remembrance Day in a lot of the Free World) is that at least once a year we get outside of ourselves, and we directly thank a special group of people who defend our right to be so into ourselves the rest of the year.

Free World Veterans & Active Duty don't compare themselves to one another on this day, but instead stand together and celebrate the single bond that makes them as a group a cut above the rest.

again, to ALL Defenders of Freedom & Liberty...past present and future...i say "Thank You for Your Service."

(you may cut and paste that if you don't know how to just say "thank you all" for yourself...but if you don't know why simply saying "thank you all" on their day is important, well, sorry, i can't help you with that part)

There is no comparing. My apologies, your Highness. So sorry if i'm thinking of a deceased loved one on a day to rember his and all others' sacrifice. Shoot me.
 

devino246

Official DIYGK Chem Nerd
Messages
3,856
Reaction score
3
Location
Lynchburg, VA
i didnt read the entire thread. but i just had to say something. now that i know almost 20 states are withdrawing from the union or trying to theres most likely going to be another civil war. i hope all the people that has had it easy and think that they are better than everyone else will experience war. they need to realize its not easy to keep the USA free. And they have no right to deface veterans memorial grounds

There are just a bunch of civilian petitions on the White House website. Nothings gonna happen unless the states start signing on, which is VERY unlikely.
 

devino246

Official DIYGK Chem Nerd
Messages
3,856
Reaction score
3
Location
Lynchburg, VA
some states already have. dont know which ones. but texas is most likely going to withdraw

Neither the states' governors, nor the states' legislatures have signed onto anything. It's going to take a major blow to states' rights for the states to sign onto the petitions.
 

jamyers

Well-known member
Messages
1,444
Reaction score
37
Location
Buffalo Gap, TX
...RANT...
Dude, you've REALLY got to stop holding it all in like that! :D

Seriously, I'm with ya bro - this oughta be the last thing vandals like that see in this world, and this is one old Tanker who'd be glad to assist. "Gunner - Beehive - Jackasses in the open!"
 

Attachments

  • M60A3.jpg
    M60A3.jpg
    21.5 KB · Views: 7
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top