Upgraded my 212 so what’s next?

WillMatrix

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Higher RPM and HP question. Predator 212cc HEMI

I have removed the governor, added thicker springs, hot cam, billet flywheel, billet rod, Torqzilla driver

What is the next step in building this up? I need suggestions to further making this thing a beast
 

karl

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Carb upgrade, I like using genuine Keihin gx390 units, easier to dial in and reliable. Round or flat slides
are more tunable.

Next upgrade would be getting rid of the hemi head, and putting wedge head with the same
size valves or bigger , to push up the compression ratio. And give said head a nice port job, and port
match the transition from the intake manifold of your new carb to the head while your at it.
 

WillMatrix

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Carb upgrade, I like using genuine Keihin gx390 units, easier to dial in and reliable. Round or flat slides
are more tunable.

Next upgrade would be getting rid of the hemi head, and putting wedge head with the same
size valves or bigger , to push up the compression ratio. And give said head a nice port job, and port
match the transition from the intake manifold of your new carb to the head while your at it.
Where and what is a wedge head? I’ll try for bigger valves just point me in the right direction. How do I go about port matching?
 

karl

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I’ll try for bigger valves just point me in the right direction. How do I go about port matching?

How much money do you want to spend on this? I think I have about $300 into my complete big valve head,
that's 32mm intake 28mm exhaust, does not come ported so lots of work is needed to make use of those big valves. Stock is 27mm intake 25mm exhaust.

More budget type build would be just swapping the non- hemi head, or other 27/25 type wedge head.

Port matching is simple, bolt the head, and manifold up ( I make a smaller ID hole gasket and stick it in at this time) , and use a long burr, sanding drums, emery cloth, ect to knock down any over or underhanging material , blending the two parts together so flow is unimpeded.
 

panchothedog

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Along with bigger valves and port matching raising the compression ratio by having a machine shop cut the surface of the head will render more power.
You can usually cut about .050" but don't go any further than flush with the first cooling fin. Some of the heads vary on how much can be taken off.
 

ezcome-ezgo

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Once you go nitromethane, you never go back. Get some boost from a supercharger or twin turbos, with nitrous of course.
 

Kartin’ kid

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Do they even make superchargers for predator 212’s? As for the rest, nitromethane, twin turbos and nitrous? Sheesh this ain’t the fast and the furious. However, if someone were dedicated enough to twin turbo a 212 I would love to see it. And nitrous? Well, cant say much as I plan on installing a kit on my very own kart :cheers2:. Although it usually doesn’t count for much, my advise for next step would definitely be a carb. Can’t go wrong with a mikuni 22 mill. Best of luck on the build :thumbsup:
 

WillMatrix

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How much money do you want to spend on this? I think I have about $300 into my complete big valve head,
that's 32mm intake 28mm exhaust, does not come ported so lots of work is needed to make use of those big valves. Stock is 27mm intake 25mm exhaust.

More budget type build would be just swapping the non- hemi head, or other 27/25 type wedge head.

Port matching is simple, bolt the head, and manifold up ( I make a smaller ID hole gasket and stick it in at this time) , and use a long burr, sanding drums, emery cloth, ect to knock down any over or underhanging material , blending the two parts together so flow is unimpeded.
300 doesn’t seem to bad. I want this to be a Mona Lisa of predator engines but still out performs a lot of the engines out there
 

Functional Artist

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Wow! $300.00 just into the "head" :huh:

OK so, the engine (it self) was ~$100.00+ (which ain't bad) :thumbsup:
...but, then your adding cams & springs & fly wheels & rods & whatever else?????

So, what do "all" of these "upgrades" end up costing? (...for real?)
...& then, how reliable are these hopped up, experimental "racing" motors? (...for real?) :worried2:

IMO the next move would be ta move "up" the food chain :innocent:
...& get a "Predator Eater" :devil2: (just sayin') :stir:
 

WillMatrix

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Wow! $300.00 just into the "head" :huh:

OK so, the engine (it self) was ~$100.00+ (which ain't bad) :thumbsup:
...but, then your adding cams & springs & fly wheels & rods & whatever else?????

So, what do "all" of these "upgrades" end up costing? (...for real?)
...& then, how reliable are these hopped up, experimental "racing" motors? (...for real?) :worried2:

IMO the next move would be ta move "up" the food chain :innocent:
...& get a "Predator Eater" :devil2: (just sayin') :stir:
What do you think is the “predator eater”? Are you talking about a tillitson ? If so I might just do that or go to a 420cc
 

Kartin’ kid

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Wow! $300.00 just into the "head" :huh:

OK so, the engine (it self) was ~$100.00+ (which ain't bad) :thumbsup:
...but, then your adding cams & springs & fly wheels & rods & whatever else?????

So, what do "all" of these "upgrades" end up costing? (...for real?)
...& then, how reliable are these hopped up, experimental "racing" motors? (...for real?) :worried2:

IMO the next move would be ta move "up" the food chain :innocent:
...& get a "Predator Eater" :devil2: (just sayin') :stir:
Ok, staying in the realm of internal combustion because (in my personal experience) electric is hella expensive. I agree with most all of this. HOWEVER, let’s say you spring the extra cash for something like for example a duromax 18 horse. Now you have an engine that will kick most any predator that wasn’t built by a YouTuber to the curb. The down side is (and this is the biggest reason I build go karts), you don’t go through the process of modifying an engine. Now, for some people this may be ideal but as someone who not only loves learning more, but just wrenching in general this is a major deterrent. Enough so that I willing spend as much as it would cost to get a duromax on a lower power engine just to get that experience. Now, if you do want an epic, (relatively) high horsepower out of the box ready to go engine I do recommend duromax 18hp. This is all just my personal opinion but hey, that’s what these forums are partially for, aren’t they
 
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Kartin’ kid

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We are talking about all brand new parts here,
so what's the bill of material cost for a brand new ME-0709 , batteries, controller, and wiring
used in your hell raiser? Just being fair :thumbsup:
My thoughts exactly! When I was building my first ever kart I originally wanted to do electric. I ordered all the parts, had them all arrive then did a little research. Found out that I could double my horsepower for half the price and made the switch to gas
 

WillMatrix

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Ok, staying in the realm of internal combustion because (in my personal experience) electric is hella expensive. I agree with most all of this. HOWEVER, let’s say you spring the extra cash for something like for example a duromax 18 horse. Now you have an engine that will kick most any predator that wasn’t built by a YouTuber to the curb. The down side is (and this is the biggest reason I build go karts), you don’t go through the process of modifying an engine. Now, for some people this may be ideal but as someone who not only loves learning more, but just wrenching in general this is a major deterrent. Enough so that I willing spend as much as it would cost to get a duromax on a lower power engine just to get that experience. Now, if you do want an epic, (relatively) high horsepower out of the box ready to go engine I do recommend duromax 18hp. This is all just my personal opinion but hey, that’s what these forums are partially for, aren’t they
This is exactly why I chose to start at a 212cc and build up. I love the knowledge and I love being able to transfer what I learned to other parts of my hobby and life
 

Functional Artist

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We are talking about all brand new parts here,
so what's the bill of material cost for a brand new ME-0709 , batteries, controller, and wiring
used in your hell raiser? Just being fair :thumbsup:
Still, no one has posted a price list or total cost for a 212 upgrade? :huh:


For the record, my Hell-raiser :auto: has
...a ME 0708 5,000W (~5HP) motor (~$500.00 new)
Motenergy ME0708 (ME1907) PMDC Motor 48V 4.8 kW cont. 15 kW pk. (electricmotorsport.com)
...a 48V 400A Kelly controller (~$300.00 new)
...a 48V 400A contactor (~$50.00 new)
...a 48V 150A circuit breaker (~$40.00 new)
...a 48V 50AH batt pack (~$500.00 used)
...& maybe ~$50.00 in wiring

(There are many more details in the build thread)

* So, the total to go electric "this way" was ~$1,500.00 :cheers2:
...but, going from 0 to top speed (~35 MPH so far) in a couple of seconds is priceless :banana:
 

Kartin’ kid

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Still, no one has posted a price list or total cost for a 212 upgrade? :huh:


For the record, my Hell-raiser :auto: has
...a ME 0708 5,000W (~5HP) motor (~$500.00 new)
Motenergy ME0708 (ME1907) PMDC Motor 48V 4.8 kW cont. 15 kW pk. (electricmotorsport.com)
...a 48V 400A Kelly controller (~$300.00 new)
...a 48V 400A contactor (~$50.00 new)
...a 48V 150A circuit breaker (~$40.00 new)
...a 48V 50AH batt pack (~$500.00 used)
...& maybe ~$50.00 in wiring

(There are many more details in the build thread)

* So, the total to go electric "this way" was ~$1,500.00 :cheers2:
...but, going from 0 to top speed (~35 MPH so far) in a couple of seconds is priceless :banana:
That’s a lot of sheckles😰
 

Functional Artist

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This is exactly why I chose to start at a 212cc and build up. I love the knowledge and I love being able to transfer what I learned to other parts of my hobby and life
I agree, it's best to start small
...& work your way up :thumbsup:

I started with the smaller 48V 1,000W (~1.2HP) MY-1020 motors
...& "squeezed" about as much as I could out of them :cornut:
Excalibur (dual 48V 1,000W motors)
Hell-raiser (1 48V 1,000W motor 26 MPH top speed)
Then/now I'm working with/learning about bigger motors
...& using some of the knowledge that I gained, while working with them, on these :cheers2:
 
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