Torque Converter

[JustBeginning0124]

So two nights ago were riding this kart no problems (other than maybe belt was a little bit long) it was fine all night until the last ride, I go to accelerate and the kart starts jerking like it wants to go but can’t. I turn around and notice the torque converter opened up and the belt was getting stuck in between the plates, which was causing the belt to fold up in between the converter and the clutch. Any ideas as to what happened? I’ve tried switching out belts and it’s still wanting to do the same, I thought maybe if I pull the engine forward it would help but now I’m thinking it won’t, I don’t know if the torque converter is bad or if it’s supposed to do that and somehow it’s just been working the way it was up to that point. The converter itself is belt driven connected to the chain sprocket on the other side.

 

[ckelloggjr]

So two nights ago were riding this kart no problems (other than maybe belt was a little bit long) it was fine all night until the last ride, I go to accelerate and the kart starts jerking like it wants to go but can’t. I turn around and notice the torque converter opened up and the belt was getting stuck in between the plates, which was causing the belt to fold up in between the converter and the clutch. Any ideas as to what happened? I’ve tried switching out belts and it’s still wanting to do the same, I thought maybe if I pull the engine forward it would help but now I’m thinking it won’t, I don’t know if the torque converter is bad or if it’s supposed to do that and somehow it’s just been working the way it was up to that point. The converter itself is belt driven connected to the chain sprocket on the other side.

The belt looks like a standard "V"-belt. The torque convertor system uses specially matched an asymmetric belt. Viewing a cross section, one side is straight, the other is angled. The same geometry is on the driver clutch. I hope this helps!

 

[madprofessor]

It's a common problem, usually the belt gets wedged into the driven pulley, as opposed to the clutch/driver pulley. First cure for it is what kellog said if you have the wrong belt on there, get the right belt. Second cure no matter whether it's the right type belt or not, get off the wallet and use a genuine Comet belt! READ ALL of the text at the top of this link below, then scroll down to the bottom of the page and READ ALL of the text down there, about twice as much as the top. Then order a genuine Comet belt!
If it happens again after that, we'll advise you on how to clock your driven pulley to a tighter spring starting hole (there's 3).
Comet Torque Converter Belts | Go Kart Drive Belts (gokartsupply.com)

 

[JustBeginning0124]

This does help a little although I am confused a little, so the diagram shows the 20 and 40 series and that setup seems to be the one I have except my clutch is a 30 series, I don’t know if that makes a difference or not. I will say prior to the problem the torque converter did not seem to open up at all and the belt just kind of rolled across the top of the closed plates and that was working fine. I’m new to all this so I don’t mean to ask too many questions or be confusing but I just want to be informative of my problem, thank you for the help

 

[redflash]

It makes a difference the 30 series is flat on one side, and beveled on the other...the 40 series is equally beveled on both sides.
And mad is right about comet belts. The Chinese belts wear badly and grip poorly. The comet belts are made just for this, and will last a long time.

Da Redflash

 

[Snaker]

This does help a little although I am confused a little, so the diagram shows the 20 and 40 series and that setup seems to be the one I have except my clutch is a 30 series, I don’t know if that makes a difference or not. I will say prior to the problem the torque converter did not seem to open up at all and the belt just kind of rolled across the top of the closed plates and that was working fine. I’m new to all this so I don’t mean to ask too many questions or be confusing but I just want to be informative of my problem, thank you for the help

I think you solved your own mystery.
The photo is really hard to see, but I picked up on that right away.
It appears that the drive pulley fixed sheave is near flat (asymmetrical 30 series) and the driven pulley fixed sheave has the typical symmetrical angle.
You can't mix those styles.
And the center-to-center distance between the pulleys is crucial, has to be set exact.
And these small engine CVT's do require a specific belt.

If you go to a symmetrical setup, replace the drive pulley with one compatible with the driven.
The driven pulley is oriented properly, just pay attention to the spring wind and ramp position.
It you go to an asymmetrical setup, both pulley fixed sheaves have to be positioned inboard, towards the engine. Replace the driven and flip it from what's there now.

 

[JustBeginning0124]

I think you solved your own mystery.
The photo is really hard to see, but I picked up on that right away.
It appears that the drive pulley fixed sheave is near flat (asymmetrical 30 series) and the driven pulley fixed sheave has the typical symmetrical angle.
You can't mix those styles.
And the center-to-center distance between the pulleys is crucial, has to be set exact.
And these small engine CVT's do require a specific belt.

If you go to a symmetrical setup, replace the drive pulley with one compatible with the driven.
The driven pulley is oriented properly, just pay attention to the spring wind and ramp position.
It you go to an asymmetrical setup, both pulley fixed sheaves have to be positioned inboard, towards the engine. Replace the driven and flip it from what's there now.

Well I hate to be that guy but do you know what clutch would be best? It’s 3/4 inch driveshaft on a predator 224cc, I didn’t know what all I was looking for when I put this clutch on just that I needed one that fit this driveshaft

 

[redflash]

30 series torque converter.......ditch the clutch !


Da redflash

 

[JustBeginning0124]

How would that work on this chassis though? If I turned the motor around for the chain drive then my exhaust and air intake would be facing toward the back of the seat, again sorry I’m stupid when it comes to this lol

 

[redflash]

seems to be a little confusion here. A torque converter is not a clutch....has nuthin to do with a clutch. a torque converter has a "Drive ", which is on the motor, and then a driven which is at the other end of the belt, . Its often called a variable speed transmission.
the 20 series is for very small motors........the 30 series is for 4- to 9 horsepower motors......and the 40 series is for 9 to 18 horsepower motors.
All three use different style belts, the belts are NOT interchangeable. My suggestion is that you not try to fix what you have, there are too many mixed incompatible parts......chuck it all and go to amazon and buy a 30 series torque converter with a 3/4 inch drive. The go to go power sports and buy an "COMET" belt.

Da Redflash

 

[JustBeginning0124]

seems to be a little confusion here. A torque converter is not a clutch....has nuthin to do with a clutch. a torque converter has a "Drive ", which is on the motor, and then a driven which is at the other end of the belt, . Its often called a variable speed transmission.
the 20 series is for very small motors........the 30 series is for 4- to 9 horsepower motors......and the 40 series is for 9 to 18 horsepower motors.
All three use different style belts, the belts are NOT interchangeable. My suggestion is that you not try to fix what you have, there are too many mixed incompatible parts......chuck it all and go to amazon and buy a 30 series torque converter with a 3/4 inch drive. The go to go power sports and buy an "COMET" belt.

Da Redflash

Here I’m better at showing lol I mean the torque converters I’ve seen all have the chain sprocket drive but this chassis has a belt drive on the shaft side of the motor and the sprocket for the chain is on the right side of the back axle. If I were to turn the motor where it would be on the same side as the chain the exhaust would be right over your shoulder on the seat. I want to do a torque conversion kit but the only reason I haven’t is because of that

picture one is the back right and picture 2 is the left side where the pulley is

also I don’t know why my pictures are coming out unclear

 

[redflash]

that set up is perfect. The shaft that drives the chain sprocket on the left, and the torque converter driven on the right is all correct. Its called a jack shaft.
what may be wrong is that (as I understand the previous comments) the driver ( on the motor) may be for a series 20 ( or something)
and the driven on the jackshaft is for a series 40 (if I understand the previous comments.) No need to turn the motor around....the system is perfect. What needs to be done is to make sure your driver, and driven are from the same series ( typically for that size motor would be 30 series) and buy both on line from amazon.

There are a number of charts at go kart suppliers that will list the correct belt size for you. the measurement that you need to take, is the exact distance from the center of the driver.......to the center of the driven, that measurement will tell you ( based on the chart) which belt you need.

where are you located, one of us close by, may be able to either call or talk you thru this .
Da redflash

 

[JustBeginning0124]

So would I just put the driven that comes with the conversion kit on where the driven is now? Would I just replace that pulley? That’s my biggest wonder cause I see most kits install over the shaft with a mount and the driven is usually mounted onto the kit. So this would probably work then? I’m in KY about 2 hours out of LVille

 

[redflash]

yes, swap new driven for old driven.......and new driver for old driver.......IMPORTANT, you may need to put spacer washers under the driver so that the belt is square and straight. Belt must be as square and straight as possible, and the only way to do that is by adjusting the driver with washers on the crankshaft, under the driver.

if you lived closer to california, I might come help......Kentucky who the hell still lives in Kentucky ?

Da Redflash

 

[Denny]

Flash, people from Kentucky still live in Kentucky. But now that we know for a fact the California school system is lousy. Let’s get back to fixin this man’s buggy.
It looks like you are trying to use a 30 series driver with a 20 series driven. They will not play nice with the belt and will kill it.
Your cheapest solution would be to get a 30 series kit since we can’t exactly identify what the driven is. What you are going to want to do is unbolt the engine and remove the jackshaft and driven and set it aside for a future project. Then re bolt down engine. Next you will want to move the axle sprocket to the other side of the axle. You will have to remove the axle to do this. Next install your TAV II kit to the engine and bolt all pieces on using blue Loc-Tite on all the bolts. Install a Genuine Comet belt only. Line up your sprockets and lock them down good.
Go to the Gokart Supply website for a great explanation on how the different series CVTs work and how to maintain them properly.

 

[ezcome-ezgo]

Coal Miner's Daughter lives in Kentucky and she will kick your a55

 

[redflash]

Denny, get a sense of humor, how old are you ? At least old people from California can laugh and poke fun, ///and take it themselves.
Lighten up, have fun here !

Da Redflash

 

[redflash]

By the way , don't impugn the california ed system. I've met "Kartin Kid" and his dad, and I found the "Kid" to be extremely sharp , creative, and engaged, and he's in the middle of the california ed system. If he's an example, I'd say we doing pretty good.

Da Redflash

 

[JustBeginning0124]

yes, swap new driven for old driven.......and new driver for old driver.......IMPORTANT, you may need to put spacer washers under the driver so that the belt is square and straight. Belt must be as square and straight as possible, and the only way to do that is by adjusting the driver with washers on the crankshaft, under the driver.

if you lived closer to california, I might come help......Kentucky who the hell still lives in Kentucky ?

Da Redflash

I appreciate the help bro, and more like “who the hell never left KY?” Lol at least we still have our straws

 

[JustBeginning0124]

Flash, people from Kentucky still live in Kentucky. But now that we know for a fact the California school system is lousy. Let’s get back to fixin this man’s buggy.
It looks like you are trying to use a 30 series driver with a 20 series driven. They will not play nice with the belt and will kill it.
Your cheapest solution would be to get a 30 series kit since we can’t exactly identify what the driven is. What you are going to want to do is unbolt the engine and remove the jackshaft and driven and set it aside for a future project. Then re bolt down engine. Next you will want to move the axle sprocket to the other side of the axle. You will have to remove the axle to do this. Next install your TAV II kit to the engine and bolt all pieces on using blue Loc-Tite on all the bolts. Install a Genuine Comet belt only. Line up your sprockets and lock them down good.
Go to the Gokart Supply website for a great explanation on how the different series CVTs work and how to maintain them properly.

That would work except the axle can’t be flipped, that was my first idea when I got the cart was to flip it so the chain sprocket would be on the left side, but seeing as I’m not a welder there’s too much stuff to be moved for it to work. If you look at the picture that shows the left side of the kart, below the clutch you’ll see a black mounting bar where the engine mount is connected too which is also welded onto the frame itself and it gets in the way of the chain sprocket if it were to be flipped. I plan on going to trade school and learning how to weld because that kind of independence is a dream lol