Predator 212 Stage 2 build - No Fire (suspect flywheel offset)

[Rockytop]

My teenager just built his first motor by himself putting a stage 2 kit on his Predator 212. He put the RACE Stage 2 kit from GPS on his engine with one slight modification (probably my fault), he used an 8-degree offset woodruff key on the new flywheel because I couldn't find any stock keys.

My question: The billet flywheel is already set to 32 degrees. I believe the stock flywheels are 24 degrees. Using an 8 degree offset key makes it 40 degrees. Is that going to be our likely culprit why the thing won't seem to fire? We have spark, valve lash seems good, I checked over his internal configuration and he seemed to have a good assembly on all the crankshaft and camshaft placements (yes the cam is aligned properly with the crank), and I believe he assembled the piston rings properly.

So can too much flywheel offset mimic a sheared woodruff key and make the engine not fire?

A few more details:
* Non-hemi 212
* Piston is new, he replaced the stock one with a flattop and new rings
* Carb is the stock unit with a bigger jet
* We got the engine to start 1 time with lots of starter fluid and many many many pulls of the cord. Ran really rough, would not start back up.
* Seems to spit fuel out the carb when we try to start it.
* Tried a couple different carbs, JIC, no change.
* Engine itself is older. Haven't tried swapping to a newer head. Not sure if it's a valve problem...

 

[Bansil]

Throw stock flywheel back on with and see if it starts with the 8* key? if so you know you just need a stock key?

Oh and welcome

 

[vpd66]

Coil gap? 40 degrees is a lot of timing. You can run the motor without a flywheel key. Get a degree wheel and set the timing to 32 degrees with no flywheel key.

 

[Rockytop]

Throw stock flywheel back on with and see if it starts with the 8* key? if so you know you just need a stock key?

Oh and welcome

Thanks. Currently swapping out to stock key with new billet flywheel. Fingers crossed.

 

[Rockytop]

Coil gap? 40 degrees is a lot of timing. You can run the motor without a flywheel key. Get a degree wheel and set the timing to 32 degrees with no flywheel key.

Did not know that! Thanks. Just did a search on YT and sure enough, timing without a key... That's fantastic information. Degree wheel is now on the shopping list.

 

[Rockytop]

RESULTS:

Replaced the 8deg advance key with stock key so timing should be set to 32deg now. Valve lash on the exhaust was a bit tight and made cord hard to pull, so we loosened that a bit. Cord snapped back and broke the spark plug cable so we replaced the coil and cable with a new one and reset the gap to around 0.055". All said and done, it turns over and runs very well now. Not sure which of those got us over the top, but it's running, so the boy's happy. Maybe he'll get off his butt and do some chores around here now that he can get his brain off engines for a minute.

Thanks all for your help.

 

[panchothedog]

You have a smart and talented son. So many kids his age don't even know what tools are. NUTURE that talent and enthusiasm Dad. Make sure he has a
kart or mini bike to bolt that onto.

 

[Rockytop]

You have a smart and talented son. So many kids his age don't even know what tools are. NUTURE that talent and enthusiasm Dad. Make sure he has a
kart or mini bike to bolt that onto.

Thanks. He's 14 and sometime last year decided he wanted to learn welding... I'm not a welder. He saved up his money and bought a welder, all the fixin's, and hundreds of YouTube videos later designed and built an offroad trike (that's him in my avatar pic). On a vacation to Fort Worth, Go Power Sports of course had to be a destination for my boys. It's been a joy watching him grab onto all things mechanical in the past year.

 

[Budget GoKart]

sounds like me a few years back exept i cant build stuff that cool! probably because im lazy and wont get a job

 

[madprofessor]

That 40 degrees sure was a lot of timing advance. I'm running a 28 degree flywheel with a 7.2 degrees advance key for 35.2 degrees, and that's about as high as I'm willing to go. Question for you............
When stock advance key (0 degrees) was lost and he used a "8" degrees key, how do you know it was really 8 degrees"? By a number stamped on it or on the package? My performance parts come from "diyperformance" on ebay up in N.C., and the numbers on my keys each represent 1.2 degrees of advance.